Vibe Check ep2 w/ @j4ck and @web3pm from @icebreaker
Aired Date
June 13, 2024
Series
Vibe Check
Episode
Vibe Check with @j4ck and @web3pm
Watch on YouTube
https://youtube.com/live/HX2faHTMJm0alright we're in welcome to the pod everyone i'm dewulfi this is vibecheck i am so excited about this one well i have a name for the podcast now i think i'm pretty much settled on vibecheck so i'll get your feedback on that in a little bit but as the vibe architect i was talking with zach zach harris he said it has to be that
so i'm really excited to
be here dan and jack two of my favorite people in the farcaster ecosystem
i actually
i don't i don't have told you this
yet but whenever anyone asked me how long i've been on farcaster i basically guide back to last east denver which is what i kind of like officially feel like i like yeah moved to my one off broadcaster when we met
and you actually you were like
oh yeah i just quit my
job and did the work on some gonna work on some
and stuff
i was
like it's really vague but it was icebreaker right or at least did you
it was yeah it was yeah it was we i think we had like we formally incorporated in december of twenty twenty two so that was february of twenty twenty three yeah so we had like a i think we had our proto breaker demo at that point and it wasn't clear exact i didn't have my pitch down that's for sure
yeah yeah i think i don't know if you were purposely avoiding that i'm sorry what was that dan
we didn't even know what we were building then
yeah we were we were in experiment phase
yeah and deploying nfts on eth main net as like the start for our community
yeah well you gotta start somewhere right and community is definitely what i wanna dig into i guess dan if you wanna start i'm very curious because i've heard a lot of obviously jack's side but the sort of your background how you met jack how this whole thing started and then we'll dig into more farcaster stuff and where you've seen growth and and sort of i think very specifically like what what's the icebreaker tribe like how do you communicate with them how do you find them and like what does that all mean daniel wanna start
yeah lots of good questions so let i'll just start and then we can kind of answer the the about icebreaker stuff later but my background is i started out and got while i was in college got startup filled so this is the most exciting amazing thing i'm gonna just do that realize it's really hard so out of college then i did consulting in telecommunications medium technology for about four years because at the time that was how i thought i could get good exposure to a lot of different companies and while i was there i basically saw the rise of the the smartphone and how early on a bunch of people in in tech and telecos were looking at it being like it's just a fad but being able to look at the numbers and project there's actually gonna be a billion plus smartphones in a couple years from now and then people just like laughing and they're like fine we'll do a smartphone thing and then you know sure enough all of the the apps that emerged on top of that and how the world has changed this is obviously dna me but going back to like 2010 and then i went back into startups after doing consulting for a couple years and then had an offer to pm at google and i thought i'd be there for a year before going back into start ups but one year turned into eight because i got to pm some really interesting products that i was passionate about which was the cross identity measurement and marketing stack at google and built that out and inadvertently contributed to sort of web two's data monopoly because we launched some features that are now like feeding that system and then got crypto killed around 2019 and when i saw the defi summer and then nft spring got really really excited that this is how i started my career with mobile phones it's the same thing and now i'm actually in a place where i can build something cool and help create this future that is really really exciting that we're about to go through so at first i tried to get google to do it and that's like a a fun side story we can talk about we did get them to agree to do a research project but it was like a research project for two years with a bunch of powerpoint presentations and meanwhile on bankless forum one day they were posting a comment thread about are nfts a scam or a fad and i said emphatically no there are some really really cool use cases i love collecting stuff i used to play like diablo diablo two i made my first you know thousand dollars selling diablo items on ebay and so like i knew that this is a thing and then somebody agreed with me in the comments and i looked that guy up we had like some back and forth and it said ux designer at google so i actually reached out to him internally at google and that was jack my cofounder and we started talking about how we love nfts and you know fast forward we both left google at the same time going to crypto i went to coinbase you know seasons and then about a year and a half later i started getting really excited that the next phase of applications can now be built using these amazing primitives and infrastructure that had been developed over the last kind of bull market and that when you combine decentralized identity with zero knowledge proofs and other things you can actually solve the problems in digital marketing that i thought were unsolvable and so that's kind of the origin story of when jack and i started talking about ice breaker
that's awesome i actually assume that you guys just like knew each other at google for a long time it's really funny that they they think it's like very web three to like meet on a on a bankless forum instead in like in a web two company they're like oh i guess we'll have to use these internal tools to communicate it to yourself
not not only that but we had worked one building apart for like five years and had never met like we we realized we're like literally a one building apart on the google campus in mountain view for five years and hadn't met each other so it was really it was it was bound to happen somehow
yeah yeah it's funny how those things always stretch out so i thought it was interesting how you said you've got crypto build in 2019 as well because i feel like and i've run into this a lot i was talking with colin about this as well in the last episode like the the forecaster quote unquote ogs are like very frequently not like people who got into it in 2013 like dan's talked a lot about these incentives about like there's like you know new structure is like if you have like you know 200,000 followers on twitter you're probably less incentivized to actually come over
my
guess is some of that's happening with icebreaker as well but jack anything to add about the origin story you wanna give a little bit about your background as as well because i mean i i i love both of you i think it's really interesting to see that like you know you're both nft and all this stuff but like jack's the one who's like the farcaster guy right like i see you getting more active though dan and i do appreciate that but i do feel like you know leveraging someone's audience is really important and then you know jack you got a you got a pretty monster one although we've had some we've had some discussions about the algo boosting as well so we can get into some of that too but jack what's your farcaster history at least now that we've got the background on icebreaker
yeah yeah farcaster history actually another google guy got me into it he was this guy just knows he's now the like lead of generative ai at youtube ux and he's just like he just like knows things he's like the master of whispers i don't know how he knows these things but he just he was like yo you have to get on this app right now it's like on fire in silicon valley and i was like okay you you tell me i'm on it so i joined and that was twenty twenty one two i don't i don't actually i mean it had to be 2022 i guess right anyway f i d 04/31 so i joined and it's like it was like empty i was like like there's nothing going on here this is kinda like alright i guess there's a couple like vcs casting that's cool i guess
i
didn't even know like say casting i was just like whatever
they're tweeting
yeah and there was like there was there was a little bit but it was like dead it was like you would look at the app and there was nothing happening and i'm like okay well there's nothing happening here so bye you know and and then i i was literally just like walking down the street in new york and i was like how is that purple app doing i wonder just out of out of the blue and it was and it was just like popping off or like well popping off they were like literally you know more than a hundred casts a day which at the time was a lot right and you're like oh this is act okay there's like a little scene here this is like this is really fun and at that time they had there's actually an exposed leaderboard the center tab that's now like i don't even know what it is i literally never clicked that thing the flame what is that trending yeah trending i guess i i don't use trending but that was an explicit leaderboard it was a top 50 rank yeah and i was like alright time to reply guy into this and also like this is to your point earlier i had never had i i never clicked on twitter like twitter i i felt like i was just the metaphor was like throwing a post it note into a hurricane that's how i felt like i was like i don't understand the nuances i don't understand like how the social works i never fit there
and then but like farcaster i was like oh okay well there's nobody here so it doesn't matter anyway and then i was just like having fun and just like being myself in a way that i like twitter always felt too performative or like you know people are like watching like investors are following blah blah so that was like my own battle anyway so i was just having a lot of fun on farcaster and reply got my way into the leaderboard and then after that it was just the number goes up right like people just started like avalanching in of you know like a thousand people a month or whatever you know if you look at the chart now this is the flat part the flat part of the the chart and then and then yeah and then it was like these people are really cool and like i get to talk to people that i would never get to talk to otherwise like vcs and and builders and the the seniors as adrian coined yeah took shape and then it you know like it became it was literally just where i was spending all my time online and that culminated in us doing our pre alpha at farcon one last year that was our very first cards ever where you got your you know your legendary transparent
you have it
i know i i have the metal one right now
nice nice
i do keep i i i think i keep that one what is effectively
a vault
that's a that's a
machine in your vault right yeah
yeah yeah it's down down in your down
in your bank in your bank vault yeah exactly yeah so that was kind of the the backstory
yeah
getting into farcaster
there you go
there you go nice yeah right
farcom one was crazy i'm i'm excited about that
and the clear there's the clear i didn't know we had any of those left
yeah like there's ice
looks for air
yeah
yeah farcom one was dope i remember you guys would at least jack was was handing out a bunch of stuff there people were excited i think you guys have tapped into some very interesting things with icebreaker especially as i think about like tribes and vibes and like what
what makes like a great like i will consider you guys like farcaster made let's call it at least right like it's a farcaster made a product a lot of the distributions there seems like although it seems like you guys are also pushing out a little bit right now but i'm super curious to hear just like kind of short thoughts from both of you like what is like what's like what makes a good icebreaker like who who who should be joining this because like i'm sort of obsessed with the idea right now and i jack i i appreciate all all the support you give me on like my random like i had a cast today i was like does it suck or is it not for you right like i've been i've been thinking a lot about the idea especially to talk to more people about their go to market like this shouldn't be for everyone like everything isn't for everyone it's insane idea but like there's so few users in crypto that i think people assume that like this is better for everyone because the incentives are better it's like dog it's earlier ux sucks like you need to go cross train like if you don't have like o p d gen tokens it's not gonna work like it's it's not everything's for everyone right and i think you guys get that pretty deeply like who's icebreaker for like who's it not for right now
so yeah maybe i will paint a picture of what we founded icebreaker for and then kind of how we decided where we would go first
yeah
because i don't think we've we've ever really shared this before so originally we thought the the opportunity is that you could basically all of the tracking that happens on the internet and all of the bad ads and all of the cookies that follow us around the internet should just be ripped out and replaced with basically an interoperable identity model that does not share your private data with anybody that you don't want to and you can actually get personalized whether it's ads or recommendations or whatever in whatever app you're in based on whatever data you wanna share and our thought was well we all we have to do is build this sort of z k marketing platform on top of this and then take the 70 cut of money that the googles and the metas take and redistribute it to primarily users and then call it a day and we're done but what we realized is that if you just pay out the money and we thought like crypto you know trains us all to think about give tokens to people and that solves the problem and i think in some senses its greatest unlock has been figuring out how to do incentive in a distributed way but i think that also when you start building applications now we're at the phase where we have a lot of l ones and i'm sure there will be more l ones but as we build applications the things that worked for l ones may not be directly transferable to the applications that are built on top of them and in fact we actually suffer from this problem of like when you only have hammer every problem you see is a net right so in crypto we tend to see every problem as solvable with tokens and we realized that actually no if you do that you attract the wrong type of user and so we had to be opinionated and really focus on like crypto is pretty small it was even smaller then we decided to start this company in the like depth of the bear market which is insane to start a company in general but starting it like at that time was also like doubly insane but we figured if we could make it work then it's real and so we decided let's start it then and crypto is tiny so you have to find something that works even if it's at a small number of users that those users could be like the unit economics for those users could be very very high if you can make it work and there's a path to being able to do that outside of that group right so we basically looked at four different segments and decided the one that we wanna focus on for a variety of reasons is the sort of linkedin use case among professionals in web three linkedin is not a good solution and it's not a good solution in our opinion for a variety of reasons for basically anybody because they are like their whole business model is predicated on making you pay to reach people that you should be able to reach for free anyway and there are like subtle patterns in that but we basically decided you know what if we can build something that is open verifiable and based on trust in web three professional networking that could be really really powerful and nobody's done this yet and it's not like linkedin is going to do this and there are a number of other platforms that are doing more gamified reputation but as somebody who's not super active on social media i think a lot about the power of our reputation that is actually not apparent but you know if you can call up somebody and have them answer and have them give you some really really good advice that's actually a lot of reputational capital too and so that's our thinking it's like enable people to tap into their reputational capital starting in web three professionals
yeah i i didn't do this in the
past episodes but i'm trying to
take stronger stances and make more ways because i think it makes for good content and i maybe this isn't particularly controversial in web three but the way i think of linkedin and this is why i love you guys going after it linkedin feels like to me the largest like low signal meetup in the world and do do you know what i'm talking about you ever go to like a crypto meetup and it's like just not it's just completely filled with people who had nothing better to do right like the refteroneys
yeah
grifterones
yeah yeah yeah it's like grifter
but like not even necessarily grifters although those are definitely there like there's the just the fully people who are like either not bought in or have some other weird incentive they're trying to like signal to their friends that they're cool or like they wanna be seen as like whatever a maverick and they go home and just like watch the same netflix show as everyone else like there's a lot of different ways to like sort of pinpoint this person out and like part of me like the growth person is like props to linkedin take all their money i don't really like interacting with those people but there's another part of me that's like it's just so bad and like you talk about twitter's performative like i scroll through my linkedin feed regularly i'm just like this is nothing this is two types of content content i don't like from people that i don't like and content that i know is just like
disingenuous from people that i know are smarter than that right like that's pretty much exclusively what the content is like jack any thoughts on why linkedin is so bad
yeah it's inauthentic
yes
that's like it's it's performative in authenticity that like and that's why i like forecast so much at the beginning is because i was like oh wow i'm just being authentic online for the first time probably in like a place where i'm not getting crucified like yeah like you know what i mean yeah but like the it's just i mean it's it's just noise right like the the signal's a noise there's almost there's almost no signal on linkedin right right and that's what i'm out here for really like the signal in in people and when you find somebody that has has signal or has you know everybody has like some slice of of signal that they're like the signal about general i mean may maybe not everybody but the people that were trying
to yeah
that's for the linkedin yeah yeah yeah right right maybe maybe not on linkedin but like it's just
yeah it's it's you know it's stuff that's like not timely it's like you know it's like high five yay like you got a new role like that's cool i guess you know like i'm like i'm trying to build a business do you know any software developers that can help me like you know that's that's that's the signal that i'm that i'm interested in and that we're interested in exploring and you can't pull that out of linkedin in an easy way without paying them a a ton of money
yeah
even though it's our own experience in data
yeah yeah you wanna add something dan
yeah it costs a thousand a month if you wanna be able to search your network for people based on a role even if you're just paying the like $45 per month premium they don't let you do that unless you're like very very expert with the tool so
yeah which is insanity absolutely but i think we touched on something here with the authenticity that i'm also sort of obsessed with so i've talked to a lot of people that were like i saw someone cast actually they were like it was almost comical how positive like the positive the vibes were at farcaster like now it's a little bit less obviously but like six months to a year ago it's like this is some sort of fucking joke like there not nowhere else on the internet it's like i mean just all bots that are chat g p t trying to be like helping each other but i think i think dan really gets incentives and like tries to pull like you know if you start top down and like pull the right interesting people in then then it can filter out although all that's getting tested now obviously so with the growth of farcaster there must have been i actually haven't talked to you guys about this so i'm i'm also curious about this as well there's been a huge growth in farcaster there must have been some growth for icebreaker what's it been like sort of riding the wave and you know talk about dgen talk about tipping talk about whatever you want that you like or don't like or have used or don't use what has been the trajectory over the last three months for icebreaker for adoption like pushing product and stuff
i'll i i have a comment on this yeah the dgen dgen has obviously changed the whole platform i have a daily allowance i'm sure you have one as well
you you got you got a lot
i got a i got an amount and i think i think the way i don't know looking at the dune query it was like i think it was like how early are you have you casted is your first cast over three hundred and five days old you get a three x multiplier
and then what was it oh wait if you cast it in in d gen channel like all of mine came from the original airdrop and i was like really surprised to see that but i guess they did actually reward ogs i thought it was like just rewarded for casting in the dgen channel and the only time i cast in the dgen channel was to ask so i could mute it and tag in dwr
i was like shut up just like please get out of my feed and then i realized that i i was inviting the pump into my life as ivan from tech says and i was like okay there's a lot happening here and generally i'm midwit meme coins like i just midwit the shit out of it right i'm like okay i have to left curve this because i'm like ninetieth percentile right but i can't i can't close that 10% you know the five whatever you know i'm somewhere in that and i'm like okay i can go left like i have to go left so what is left curve doing and what does left curve look like and why did these why are these people just like so fired up about this and i was like okay i'm gonna embrace i'm gonna embrace degen which was like a i a conscious flip for me and it was hard to do because i didn't generally like i was i was railing against it i was like annoyed i'm like ah you're ruining my you're ruining my network like old man like get off get off my lawn get off of my lawn you degen kids yeah
you know
and but i was like okay let's lean into this and then i was like okay it this is interesting now i have so i get a marketing budget every day so what should i do with that like that's actually like the that mechanic design is good and bad depending on who is the person with the allowance right like it in incentivizes a lot of people to just like basically run engagement farming in the monthly in the in the post season one right like season one airdrop that was like the original claim it was more based on previous forecast or activities so that's probably the best drop and the subsequent seasons have been rewarding engagement farming behavior and that's where we've seen huge influx of airdrop farmers and which is like no no fault against them like get get the money but it's also really decreased the original farcaster one like signal zone anyway all that to say now i have this marketing allowance that i kit i have to use every day that's awesome that's dope and the number went up and now i'm like i have $700 to give away today what do i want people to do on icebreaker like like i better spend thirty minutes figuring this out and so i was just like not consulting anybody and being like everybody go to icebreaker and sign up right now i'll give you a thousand d gen you know and just like running these through like to you know dan is like no like wait and i was like well i have all this money like i'm gonna put them over here like point might as well run them through the machine but all of that to say it was interesting to see because like the one that i really liked was right after we launched linked accounts i said go link your forecaster link your github no link your twitter and optionally link your github and this is actually because of the bounty caster integration those are the three channels they were chasing so i was like oh i'll post a dgen tip tip out with this and i tip out my whole balance in like twenty five minutes so i but i did that and then users that came through and did it were not the high value original forecaster people right because they are not there looking for tip comments you know like we'll get like friends right like like you and and other people that are friends of us in the platform are coming through they're like oh okay cool nice so we have linked accounts like great that's a nice update
but driving the original like the people that are there like completing the steps i mean it it what it showed me is that a the product does work like this is great now i could see your linked accounts and now i have an informed opinion about your rank which i suspected and is now confirmed by the linked accounts that you've added to your icebreaker profile so when somebody does link up their accounts in their profile it is extremely insightful and a great tool to assess what is this person's like basically career
and kind of you know tech expertise or lack thereof and it's really a quick way to see that so i'm really excited to be signal extracting and continue to improve that flow and now for me the next one is like i don't know i i've never had $700 to give away before every day so that is a new muscle that i'm building and i'm excited to run better experiments really targeting you know people with like badass git hubs
yeah yeah add to that that like the the d gen dynamic has been really exciting to see because for a long time we had this thesis that it actually starts from us originally looking at okay how do we make people's data self sovereign and then realizing well even if we can do that we don't have a good place to store it that we feel safe about storing because either we can access it or it is stored in some decentralized repository that either is hackable or the users might lose their keys and then screw themselves up so we were like well what if we just focus on the connections between people instead while we're waiting for these primitives to kind of mature so that we can use them and then we realized wait a second you actually don't need any data about who somebody is if you just know who they trust and who trusts them because like if i just say it and a non address is like highly trusted by me and really really strong at product and if you know me and you trust me for product then that's actually you don't need to know anything else to be able to feel like oh this person i probably should speak with and that's really really interesting and so we we had started exploring like what if we could rearchitect the way that that recommendations work on the internet starting with hiring but really you could apply it to anything like a person a product a place a business right like these all get better with recommendations and word-of-mouth is just an example of like a peer to peer irl recommendation what if we could enrich all of that with these trust graphs and and so this one way of talking about like tracing a graph out and potentially repeating that infinitely many times is this concept of recursion which is like you run a function and then you run the function on the result of the function and do it over and over and over again and we had this thesis that like you could actually do this with these recursive trust graphs and you could do recursive incentives too but we've never seen it played out and then launched and dgen is like it's left curve memetics but it's actually like right curve big brain architecture and it is in my opinion like it it's now set a new standard for what airdrops can do because previously airdrops were like one entity basically saying okay i'm gonna decide who gets all the tokens and you get some and you get some and you get some and then they're trying to reward the best people but the way that deegen has shown us is that it's actually way more powerful if you can basically reward people and then make them not only rewarded directly but now imbue them with power that allows them to re reward those people with like their token allocation and you can design it in a way where it's like you lose it or use it or lose it so it's actually really really brilliant and it allowed us to see what happens when you actually do use some incentives with these dynamics so it made us very very bullish on this kind of model i think we're still seeing what are the exact right ways that you design a recursive incentive structure but i'm really excited seeing now like we have basically a new phase of experimentation that that we all get to learn from because it's crypto and it's open
yeah i'm not surprised you guys have hyper right curve takes on being left curve it's like i feel like it's very much the icebreaker brand it's like how can we be really smart about being dumb
i think it's hard it's really hard to be dumb it's actually really hard it's like really hard it's like
it's for yourself like okay don't drag me no you curve no
i should not even say like yeah i'm i'm maybe i sometimes i think we're pinky in the brain like i'm pinky and ben in the brain
like it's the height
and everything like i i bring the dumb
yeah for sure i mean i wish you had time to talk about talda too there's so many things to talk about we're running well on time but you guys said a lot of great stuff just to to inject my own branding here for a second i think you you know on the growth side is definitely allowing people to fuck around and find out which is great because everyone is experimenting with this at least you know ogs or whatever even people with like so much smaller budgets are figuring out like what you can get done with it i think the most you know the most interesting i did recently was i gotta put a bounty caster up for anyone who wanted to like drop a sound x y z track that would be like the intro and outro and like i'll just give my whole tip balance which is a pretty decent amount of money for just like giving me a basically the rights to attract that i can use for this if you already are doing those things and then i get like a lot of this really high quality engagement like very like serious like music producers have been have been contributing things just for the idea of like you know it's worth the reward and maybe some publicity whereas i feel like a lot of people are going to find out that you know initial experiments jack no jade which again poo pooed on after like hundred to do something it's almost it's almost linkedin anti signal right it's like if you're willing to do almost anything for a hundred you are telling on yourself just a little bit about what type of user you are and i i suspect people will will double back because it's all on chain and or at least on hubs and and i think i think some people are gonna tell on themselves on themselves a little bit over over the years
yeah throw experimentation if it's low effort to do so right
yeah absolutely yeah absolutely and most of what i do is low this is this podcast is really the highest everything that i've ever done personally so we'll see how it goes most of my stuff tends to be low effort that's where i shine i think
i wanna talk about bro really quickly and bromero because it's just not fair to not talk about it it's cast actions are interesting cast actions have been fun because they're not really in the feed i feel like they haven't had the viral moment that frames did because like everyone could like screenshot it and like you'd use it for like you know you use it for go to market or attribution or whatever people are using it for tell me briefly about romero and then we'll make sure that we plug all the things that people should do with icebreaker today if they are part of the trend this isn't for every this isn't for everyone this is for people who vibe with this shit i i'm taking that very seriously now but but first romero i'm a bro i'm very proud of you a bro yeah jack hell yeah bro tell me what's going on
anybody can hear bro
bro anybody is a bro bro is a all inclusive term what is going on with it yeah we made we made the cast action and i don't know how much i should say honestly like we they're the bros are cooking the bros are cooking right now
okay that's fine that's all you can say that's fine it's funny i actually i gordon scott i said is there anything we shouldn't talk about and of course bro is the thing that we need to think
bro is the thing
that we need to think bro is the thing that we need to think bro is the thing that we need
to think
maybe maybe we can explain the like the human attestation that this sort of started from so
yeah yeah yeah
for for those who may not be familiar we had started launching i'd say like experimental attestations where like you can endorse somebody for something and a pretty low a a low risk attestation to make about somebody is that they are a human right so we figured it'd just be a fun way to like allow people to click a button in our app which actually under the hood makes an ethereum attestation service attestation from your address to the recipient's address which now can be indexed and you can like choose whether to display it on your profile or not and we thought that it's an interesting alternative approach for some civil resistance on the internet using recursive trust graphs versus using like passive or active biometric authentication right where i i don't think they're necessarily mutually exclusive solutions but like knowing who's a real person and who's not is actually a non trivial problem on the internet really we're focused more on knowing whether somebody is an awesome person to work with and whether they're really awesome at what they do in the professional context but you know whether somebody is human is a good starting point for figuring out the the other things so we'd like been experimenting with this we actually launched a cast action to experiment with doing this in the context of the feed and i would love to talk more about i think cast actions are underappreciated right now and they're actually way more impactful than frames at least in their current forms we just don't have the right ways of like making the cast actions viral right now but we are about to light up our first spot which will basically like post when somebody uses the cast action and i think having those kinds of dynamics where like you get to see the cast actions being used is gonna help those a lot because if you think of them as a means of in context of what you're doing actually conducting some action that's outside of that app but using your stored identity that is really really powerful and so i actually wanna have like a cast action button across the internet that could be powered by icebreaker for some of them but it could be powered by anybody else right and now you can basically annotate the internet and take actions from different pages and do all kinds of crazy things that we haven't even thought about yet so we we basically then just copy bro as if what if it's another way of attesting somebody is a human or a bro right every human is a bro and maybe vice versa and then what would we do if we could then build around that and actually test our system for what happens when people try to get into the system and how we can basically regenerate the trust graphs when we have people who are trying to gain the system which is really the ultimate test and i'd rather experiment and figure figure out where it breaks versus launch something meant to be durable and then have it break
yeah that makes sense and we can go a little bit longer if you wanna talk more if you guys have the time and you wanna talk about cast actions i'd love to i i i'd i'd never tire of hearing you guys talk about right right curve left curve stuff but i will say that from my perspective the reason i sort of got obsessed with bro and it's i i feel like it's always intentional with you guys but it's sometimes it's hard to say it's like the first one is like the the innovations always look like toys so it's exactly what you're talking about with like the phones and stuff like that like it just it just fun like it looks like a toy and that's how you figure out all these things underneath but there's something very emotionally compelling about growing someone right about like fist bump right there's like and like you don't have to explain it all and i it's cool i i appreciate that you do because it's it's very interesting but just immediately as soon as i install the cast action and now that i've heard what it's for it's like i would never send a bro to a non bro like it's very obvious that like you can't just like bro out with anyone you know what i mean and it's like whether that person's a real person or not like you know you guys will figure all that stuff out in the long term but like i would never be like looking at some spammer and being like you know what they get a bro bro
yeah exactly no dude it was like this is like the most distilled left curve thing i've ever done like yeah which is just like yeah put it in my like trophy case you know like it's just so stupid like top top stupid award goes to me for bromero bromero's great yeah it's just so funny and i i mean i didn't even actually i think i even stole that because i think my response to him the original cast i think my response was dan romero and then somebody said no it's dan romero and i was like i am an idiot like how did i not see that like how did i not see that one
well dude that's like you know art lou made farts right
yeah and
then i was talking with kristen or like on our lonely stream i was like yeah it's fart lou she's like did you just make that up i was like i thought that was the whole point like that that's why it's funny his name's art he's like you part on people and there's part shields and and all these things and he's he's quite the tinkerer so i love that but yeah i was really proud of my bro jack horstman
which i came up with earlier today yes
that was in the
i mean
it's just it's just like infinitely remixable and memeable it's just chef's kiss yeah absolutely i mean there is if we if you wanna get into it i was just looking there there's actually bro and bros that already exist as channels so i was like didn't realize that when i moved brain to channel the other day but it worked i mean like i didn't expect anything i i casted twice about it and then i went to bed and then it was 3,000 people in the channel and i was like oh okay well i guess we're doing this
dude that's what happened with me and whoops because like i was trying to lose like july's got this cool personal channel yeah scott designed it's got like a hundred thousand followers like i need something cool and i've been trying to grow this growth channel just like i don't know it also felt kinda disingenuous because like i just made it because i was like we should probably have a place to talk about this but like what i learned with growth this is no shade to anyone in particular but like it's all it's kinda like bd and like web two it's like no one wants to hear them talk like i feel like it's the growth person in web three they're like no one's like dude i just don't care man like it's just like not that interesting like there's definitely some people with some differentiated opinions but like broadly speaking i feel like the bd guy at salesforce is your airdropper web three marketer like your discord manager in web three it's just like i did always find myself in the position surrounded with people that like no one wants to hear talk so i don't know i don't know you guys feel bad you guys like tired of like talking
to i appreciate i appreciate you your personal channel and growth i appreciate all the takes
okay like
i'm like i'm like good i'm in growth i need to learn like teach me the way
there's some good stuff in there i think there's i think the the thing i like about growth most is a lot of very curious people who are like trying to learn things and like i think for that it has been has been strong but there's definitely and i'm like i'm not gonna feel like ban people or anything but like dude jack you're in design like i don't know dan does he bitch to you about like the craziest stuff
i showed i showed dan my review of design channel and he was like woah woah woah woah woah don't ban i'm like ban ban ban ban he's like woah woah i was like no they're dead bye gone
i think it's important i think this is exactly what we're talking about like it's not for everyone and that's fine like if you're not gonna fall in on to whatever it may be
if i see another interior like a ai picture of an interior home i'm gonna lose my mind like they're
just like
do you like the design and i'm like damn like no
i don't
yeah it's like that's the user it could be a demo
well i'm i'm curious when like the mod like the mod stats come back like there's gonna be some point where we show like the moderation stats and it's gonna be like auto mod 1,000,000 and then like jack five hundred k and then like everybody else like 23
that would be a good thing airdrop to do also for somebody with an airdropping mood yeah like to basically publish and then reward the people who've actually been moderating the channels based on the size and like engagement in those channels that would be really cool because the way it works right now is you have a bunch of and it's based on what jack has showed me i'm not really like online enough to to moderate but there are a ton of moderators to some of these channels and one is basically doing a majority of the work or just a couple and others are kind of there hanging out so that would be interesting when we get the steps
i think that's something that actually i would totally encourage you guys to look into i've been talking to a lot of people about this it's like the whole like advertising model and like pin cast and frames like there's a lot of tools in place that are sort of like monetized and then i was talking to i speak note about this a little bit as well he's got an interesting story because he just kinda like threw out like dan was like what channels do you guys want he's like tabletop gaming yeah
no i yeah no we were just talking to him yeah
dude dude he's such a trip he's he's such an interesting guy and he's like dude i have like 4,000 followers there's 40,000 people in tabletop and like i thought this was a niche thing that no one cared about like turns out a lot of people love catan so that's how the game goes
well that's that's that's the top level funnel into warpcast because it's in the suggested stuff you know what i mean yeah like if your if your channel's in there you're basically minted like this is this is just the leaderboard this is the hidden leaderboard that exists for channels and for people
yeah and that's one thing dan gets really well it's like just out here like blatantly rewarding anyone who's gonna retain dao and i think i think it's great i think you can align incentives that way alright i don't wanna keep you guys too long i know everyone's busy and jack has well he's gotta go moderate he's gotta go ban some dan's gotta call ban
i go ban it again
jack has to go ban some people yeah icebreakers who should join what do you do when you get in there what makes a good profile just like rattle off some stuff that like is super high prio for anyone who like i think what i really believe with this podcast that i'm hoping is like i'll like put out some stories so people might not even like know exactly what icebreakers is but they're like damn jack and dan are super fucking smart whatever they're building i wanna go be involved with so like so for people who think that what's what's the next step to to work with you guys and and and test some stuff out
yeah i would say you can start by connecting with jack and me at the links in our names and really who it's for is if you are a strong builder with a very broad definition of builder like basically are you working full time in web three and you think at some point you might be hiring people or selling to other people or looking for a role then you are doing it long if you're not using your trust graph on ice breaker and we've been building really out this this like interoperability recently so the default is actually to sign in with warpcast where it will automatically generate your profile and it links back to warpcast as a verified account we have integrations increasingly with like bountycaster and there are a couple others in development and the whole idea is like interoperable identity where you can bring your network and your trust with you anywhere and then use it when you need to for example like get a job or find somebody else and you're finding a product where you start like that's that's our vision and what excites us about the future of the internet that can only be done with decentralized identity
hell yeah yeah i was actually looking at the bounty caster job board and i was like oh so happy about the slicebreaker integration what did i do what did i and i got i love linden and and pirov so like so yeah i i'm i'm super excited for that yeah anything to add closing conference
yeah we can get
a bro from you
just post
link your account shit in design
yeah come get banned
come catch come catch these hands
yeah no just just link your accounts link your accounts on icebreaker that's that's what we're interested in right now that's top for me and then tell me what you wish it did yeah always door is always open
so alright so we'll get you some feedback i'll link you guys both i'll drop my icebreaker in the comments as well maybe we'll get like a man i don't know exactly how to phrase this like a broke this train something like that it's phrased improperly okay yeah a brocheting a brode out yeah lots of fun man dan jack thank you so much for this i'm honestly deeply appreciative as i get this whole thing off the ground for people like yourself who are super intelligent and willing to come on and share your story but that's it for fun man
this is great bullish bullish on this podcast vibes are up vibes are high vibes are high
who cares about market vibes are up only baby
vibes that's growth dude that's actually there's your smith brand growth there's your bro for growth it's vibes
growth growth mindset
yeah proud
amazing and on that vom show