okay
we're in brother
we're in
it's vipiac live
it's just amazing it's funny i can see myself on the other monitor as well yeah
you can find so you can delay yeah it's it's a little trippy for sure let me make sure that i've got i've got it open
yeah i'm gonna minimize that because i don't wanna look at myself alright i'm gonna focus on the chats only
yeah it's it's definitely something different i kind of i kinda like shrink it and then like move it to the side so i can just see the chat
yep i basically did the half screen and then scroll down
yeah okay so this is recorded we would have see who who shows up and who doesn't but we catched some of some some stuff out we tweeted some stuff out and well we're here for i guess two things maybe it's it's just vibe check so it is what it is
yep
but but the two things we're gonna do is one we're gonna take a look at basket.farm it's like go to marketing stuff but we also
we got into a friendly but
divisive
discussion i would say is that fair is that a fair estimate
yeah yeah
yeah yeah and i'm gonna pull up exactly what she said and i shoulda had this ready but it's been a it's been a hectic day we're doing this all on the fly as we figure stuff out
it was i
know what you're talking about let me see if i can find it too
i remember here it is
yep found it
cast is and you know what let's be fancy let's
see screen
yeah we'll share the screen
go for it
yeah we'll share the screen
so dan posted so it's it's pretty deep here and we're doing pretty good we're definitely not number one but if you don't like the make money consumer value profit broadcaster what do you think is better and i said own your audience build your own culture build your own community be wise i said justification we need more stars most people are passive we've minted some we're not even close to having enough dan agreed on this had a question about rednote i let him know my thoughts on rednote and to dial it back i said vote for me this is important because i really fucking hate this narrative
i said we're winning we can affect change and you said farcaster farcaster has to support and participate in the speculation game without that they might not even make it and i just i couldn't disagree more but i will it would not be fair for me to not let you make your point at least so maybe the best way to start with this is
like please elaborate sure yeah yeah yeah so look i i don't think we are disagreeing on the ultimate goal i think we are disagreeing on in terms of how we get there so that's the difference and depending on the stage there are different games to be played and that's the direction i'm going towards so for example
farcaster needs and any other social basically needs two people people who create content and people who basically like consume content right generally speaking i'm super simplifying it somebody who creates content on the other side and consume content that's based on what i have seen so far again i don't have exact data but i think it's 80% rule still applies here 20% people create the content sometimes even less than that high value content is even like 10% of people not even more than that 80 to 90% people are just the consumers that's the divide and when you said that when when dan said that hey we need to focus on make money as like and i think he mentioned this roughly two three weeks ago where make money make friends and then something else i'm like you know what this might actually be the right approach to attract that 90% people because firecaster has those 10% people some of them it doesn't have all of it but it has good enough 10% people because there are some amazing truth bombs that are dropped to regarding forecast or regarding crypto community regarding everything else like whether it's culture environment politics whatever it is but there are not enough people to appreciate it and how are we gonna get those people in well give people what they want and here people want to make money in crypto twitter land give them that as a marketing message let them in and then present with the case of like oh yeah i came for the money stayed for the tech stayed for the political view stayed for entertainment stayed for friends whatever it is but came for the money so i think that was like given the market like if twelve months ago i would have disagreed with that statement but given the market condition i think that's the right way to approach it i don't know if it will remain the same after twelve months my gut feeling says it will remain there at least around twelve to eighteen months but at least for next twelve to eighteen months i think this is the right approach to get that 90% of people
i will stand on business we are disagreeing
okay perfect let's do it
we are disagreeing
let me codify my thoughts okay so first of all
funny we we we cannot agree that we are disagreeing on
that's hilarious how very how very farcaster of us okay so first of all barcaster does not have to worry about a twelve month strategy they never have they are looking at the long game dan has always been very very clear about that and i think that is the right way to build it
yes
second of all this whole idea that like people came for the money and then like stayed for their friends or something like that first of all at least 50% of the time i think it's bullshit i think they're still here for the money i think they think there's more alpha and then like when people leave like there's still like coins dropping and like i don't think there's anything wrong with that but i smell bullshit when most people say i came for the money and i stayed for the tech or i stayed for the people it's like yeah but you all you post about is coins i i see it in my feed like i i can go look at your shit like you're still just posting tickers like like you're not you you're organizing zero irl events you host no channels except ones that are related to coins right it's like and that's fine i don't think that's a bad thing but i do think it's disingenuous and it's totally to be expected people who come for the money are here for money and that's the way that it is but you cannot i don't think you can build a social network on the back of money you can build casinos you can build fiat reps but i think there's something much more powerful than money that that goes into a social network in terms of the idea of why you're somewhere right this this rough idea like sure everyone has a price to do something you can always pay people to do things but it it does not it and and and it does two things i was talking with android 16 about this the first thing that it does is
it i think at least it attracts the wrong type of people it it attracts the wrong type of people not because they're like bad people but but because you're you're a certain type of person when you come to the network and if you come to the network to make money and you become known for making money or for losing money or whatever it is then that's sort of the whole narrative revolves around that and it crowds out everything else that's very important to a social network small groups cozy corners whatever you wanna call it right if it's all just about making money you'll reach a shelling point where no one wants to talk about anything else why would anyone if if let's say it gets we get a hundred thousand users who are here to make money no one is going to come to talk about anything else that's what it will become and i think that's a dead end because when the money disappears then all those people disappear as well and the money eventually disappears because it's only it's only money to be made when it's like high alpha high status as it becomes mid and it comes down back to average which networks always do
you can't play that game anymore then it just disperses this is the boom bust cycle of 99% of shit coins too it's the same idea try to be in early soon as soon you want to get out the other thing that's really important though that does is obfuscates your oodle loops because when people are here to make money you actually have no idea if you're making a good product if you worry about making money during the bull run and you think you're getting users and you think your product is getting better and then everyone leaves when the market falls off from underneath you have no idea if you did anything good or not because the whole thing was just based around making money anyways when you have a narrative that's like okay we're here to make money and you're not in control of that which you're not no one is ever in control of that those are market forces unless you're developing some sort of like platform to actually generate revenue as a as a job as a business but that's clearly not what we're talking about here right then you're going to not know you're specifically gonna obfuscate whether or not you're making good product or not to someone because people are here for something else i'll pause
so let me repeat what you're saying so that we're on the same page what you're saying is and i mostly agree with is it's misdirection that is bringing the wrong audience and they're gonna leave as soon as the money making part is gone or because that's not sustainable
correct yeah and we've seen that everywhere so for all of that
is so here is like here is the counterargument
i don't think making money is a product market fit i don't think it has more like the core product i see it as a product feature that basically you need to market around and there are other product features that also needs to be marketed around but right now if the pop culture in general is focused on making money which is mean coins for now then it is extremely important to tap into it to figure out how to get to the next level yes of course like without tapping into that the growth we're gonna get is let's say 5% as an example okay making sure that with that we're gonna grow let's say % and i'm gonna go back to like 20% of the original which is still 10% more than the previous because it starts like some adoption cycle and that's the hope people come people stay and there is another hook and hopefully because of those consumers we attracted some creators that's when they will stick around for other hobbies so that's why i'm not i don't think this is a core product i think this is a feature and all features needs to be marketed depending on whatever the market situation is that's direction where i'm going
it's okay it's we're getting to some very interesting things here because this is what i i was harping on with horse facts it's like i don't think making money or an economy is a bad thing i think it's really important i think when i had like the build your own community like part of it is you can monetize it's really important to have people care about this at all mhmm obviously there needs to be money involved the problem is when it's the narrative the problem is when you when when when when the problem you're solving is you don't have enough money or you don't have enough alpha is really what you're talking about when you say make money right when you say make money in crypto it means that most people how about this when you say you're making money in crypto and what i think most people hear when they hear you can come to farfetch to make money the subtext of that is it's alpha you are gonna be earlier than other people and in a pdp trading world that means you will dump on someone else right but because of the way that it that's not that's how you're gonna make money it's pdp we're we're we're making money now sure there's a couple of things like clinker and stuff like that the vast majority of people that are attracted to this narrative are here to dump on someone else and you get a very agro culture from that which is really antithetical to what an early stage social network needs right this is exactly why woonsuck started he sectioned it off by schools so that when you came on it was a very positive experience from day one all your friends were there you knew everyone you were hooked right away you're using it constantly the moment people start getting dumped on because they come to firecaster there's a more alpha like it disappears all of the value disappears and not only does the value disappear you have burned people because you told them they were gonna come to make money and they lost money right those people if they stay they'll be bitter most of them leave and and that's why it's really important to differentiate which i think i think you are doing this here which is which is which is good is like making money as a feature is fantastic making money as a narrative is terrible because narrative is what guides the expectations when people show up to a new product right what should i expect when i come here and if you set the expectation that you're going to make money you're going to
fine if it was like make friends make money but if i say make money make friends that's what you disagree with that's what it sounds like
that's a pretty good way to put it it's definitely not as nuanced as as i like but but i wouldn't i wouldn't i would let's say let's say this i wouldn't have the visceral reaction that i'm having from this narrative conversation dan included if it was make friends and make money but when you tell people come here you can make money like that attracts a certain type of person with a certain type of thing in their head and i think it's very bad for a social network to attract those types of people with those expectations
okay you know what i i'm i'm okaying with that in with these caveats right like again agreement disagreements are different problems like i'm okay with the statements you're making let's just go with that for now because i have tried the statements that you have tried on some major brands like perks have worked with those major brands in the past and believe me i've spent six months trying to get those brands on webcast and whatever they said was missing we started building them underperks and it did not yield any results and it was the exact same pitch you own your users i even threatened them roughly nine months ago saying what if tiktok gets banned what would you do and their answer was we'll see when it happens like i'm not even lying this is their answer was and right now i reached out to them asking for that unfortunately that person has leave the job so this is like not my problem anymore that's the friendly that's the friendliest respond i could got in that case but point i'm trying to make is that they will go where their audience is they don't want to recreate the audience so instead of moving gems to forecaster it's about breeding gems inside forecaster mhmm and if we can basically breed those gems and say hey i am exclusively on forecaster then they will be able to create like attract audience from outside which is another way of saying they are providing some alpha whether it's financial alpha whether it's technological alpha whether it's music alpha entertainment alpha something but that's what facebook was as well earlier right it was alpha on where your friends are who they are sleeping with in a nutshell right
it was that but it was also stats status was a huge part of early
yes yes yes yes agreed
agreed and actually i was talking to dan on our podcast the rubicon what i do i do with hirsch and he does he did say he wonders what if he had never opened it up what if it was still invite only i actually love that i think he should've
i actually listened to that like i actually listened to the whole podcast three times i'm not even joking oh great so many things actually dan said and you guys countered and vice versa and i'm like you know what there are amazing frameworks here that you can use to validate or invalidate ideas right like again constant job is for me is to when an idea comes to me i have to instantly devise a way to validate or invalidate an idea so i can figure out how much resources to put on each of each one of them so i saw a lot of amazing frameworks there so i literally listened to that multiple times and i also wonder the same if the goal is to provide alpha then the status game makes more sense because that status game and this is one of the things that is that is not reversible anymore theoretically theoretically let's just go with that it's very hard to now just to be able to find a new game and this is a new game that i i can put go behind and say you know what this is gonna get at least the users in and in crypto making money if you stay around the cycle is a long term thing like anyone who sticks around in crypto for more than four years makes money whether they make $10 10 thousand 10 million different problems but point is if it's been around for four four years it may have in the historical sense made money so and yeah with that mindset if anyone comes into farcaster they are and if they stick around for four years if that problem is solved they're gonna make money so that's why i'm more into like okay make money concept works for me and i'm a little bit like biased towards builders confidence and ability to attract the audience where if there is an audience builder will build the craziest shit to engage them and with the frames and everything so i'm just a little more hopium in that sense
i don't think there's anything wrong with hopium i love hopium i'm constantly on cope i'm constantly on hope hey i'm with you brother but also like it's it's it's interesting to hear your perspective because you did so much selling to brands right and i i it was a good idea but it does strike me as early because we still like if we're still talking about broadcaster pmf and this is what i was talking with sam huber about too it's like when you go out and sell it like it's it's not that you can't do it i'm like it's not that it's impossible or that it shouldn't be done but it is way harder to sell your service and convince someone that barcaster is a good place to be at the same time yeah
you
try to onboard people it's hard enough just to get someone on the barcaster i mean emotionally to get over the head of another fucking website it it looks just like twitter like what what what am i doing here right but i think well i don't know i mean a lot of this was also just like work from the merkel team because like the frames moments and stuff like those those big moments are what like rocket rocket ships you know dow at any given time i think dan and them were just searching for more of those if i had to steel man mhmm the argument for like you can make money it is absolutely your argument which is who really cares just keep getting a bunch of people here we'll figure it out eventually as long as a lot of people are joining
your system will figure out how to keep them engaged if i give them the real users forget if they're good yeah yeah yeah right
yeah let's let's assume let's assume that out of the 500,000 people that joined to make money n of them are truly great content makers that don't have an audience on x they don't have an audience on tiktok and i'll just fucking spray and pray it that is your your case if i had your case is my steelman i still don't totally agree but it is my steelman for whatever it's worth
yeah so i'm hoping that that's what dan's steelman is and that's why i'm supporting that otherwise you're right like and i it's personal retrospective as well so per like until december like literally last year i was like visualizing myself sitting on an ivory tower and saying like anyone who is just playing only playing the speculation game i was looking down on them and i've learned that that won't work i have to understand why speculation is important and build products that i'm not saying that fuels speculation but at least supports them and also provide a real product on the side as well that's why we started like looking into basket but again we don't wanna go there right now the point is that i was thinking the same i was having the same mindset and i directed it literally a month and a like a month ago personally speaking
i don't
i think maybe this is a good pivot to basket we don't what let i would
like to push the agenda but i'm happy to answer questions that's a or and ask questions and learn
i would love well okay so it was fun to have an argument you've definitely refined my thinking i still disagree but i i don't disagree as hard and i've i've i've come around to seeing the other side a little bit which is it actually it makes me happy it make i don't like to be angry janine i like to be understanding
yeah like honestly i love arguments but being angry is not the place i wanna be as well so i'm with you % and i i know what you mean as well by the way bro like when you said like i made again i'm so many mistakes in my life and one of them is attracting the wrong customer base and then losing all of it the moment that incentive is gone and i can give another example if it's okay in that direction
yeah
okay so we built a movie game as well remember last year which was more like guess the movie game on forecast the genesis of that was simple we come from the tech background we don't understand the creator's mindset as much so we started internally thinking how can we be ourselves creator build something in the land so we understand their pain points so we started thinking about that internally we came up with different ideas one person put their foot down saying guys we need to build this whenever in the team somebody put their foot down we respect it and in this case it was the movie game so we got the movie game initially it was like 200 people playing the game for the first month on a daily basis so that was a dau which is not bad but it's like what's the point like 200 what who cares it was getting us roughly four to five times the previous number of daily sign ups to perks so that marketing campaign was also working as a marketing campaign and we are like you know what let's amplify it let's crank up as much as we can we thought what if we can just to understand what is possibility here we cranked it up to a point where we went to all the clinker tokens and said do you want the distribution of those tokens to our players we have roughly 8,000 players that you get that will based on the person who plays depend depending on the algorithm will pick hundred winners and your tokens will be directly going to them we don't need any cut and based on that we came up with marketing cycle and then try to create this three sided marketplace with we are one of them one of the side in this case or the game is one of them we were able to get the dau to 16,000 which was crazy that was the best day we never saw that day again and right after that it dropped to 8,000 of course but that was our day where we had 16,000 player who played the game which was the height height of it and just because we were testing we're like no more incentives let's see how bad it can get yeah the and like again this was the game was not the core product so we can do anything with it without getting affected on a company side so we literally crank it down to almost zero and with that the answer came down to be 20% ish above the previous law previous daus and unlike if forecaster can achieve the same growth with finding new those ways to crank and if they can sustain those cranking on regular basis it becomes a step function so that is my belief on why targeting similar audience so this audience was completely shitty that's why 16,000 to roughly 200 dau right like that was completely bad but here cryptotwitter and warcast has a very similar like there's a big if you draw a band item there's something very big in the middle so if that is the correct part in that case the retention hopefully is higher and can create a step function towards growth so i've learned the lesson on the wrong audience side but i think this is not a wrong audience it's just that they are they will come in for the wrong time and wrong sorry they will come in for the wrong reasons but hooking or getting oh sorry and provide them a hook should not be super complicated that's my current thesis
that's an that's an experiment
yeah no it's interesting data it's really helpful to have it i think i'm glad we're recording this hope hopefully it's okay if we we publish this later
publish i think i made a post about it as well but yes
yeah so it's awesome so we'll we'll we'll we'll put it up on the youtube so other people can watch it later because that's it is a very interesting perspective from someone who's actually gone through it i i do think
that it's a bit short sighted or maybe too narrowly focused i i'd have to run some i'd have to find out some way to ab test so i don't even know if you can but like my gut says this isn't that bad if you're trying to run something inside the farcaster eco where you're already like this is an interesting strategy if you're like on top of farcaster you're betting that farcaster is gonna keep growing and you can sort of run these experiments to continue to grow this way whereas farcaster they need net new now you know i i think that's what they need to do %
that's the biggest problem
yeah they need net new and then like i don't know if you get those like even that even 16,000 to 200 definitely a success by many measures i don't know if you get that once you try to expand beyond crypto twitter right like because if if if forecast
i'm i'm with you % not possible you're right
yeah not possible so yeah so maybe maybe you keep doing this till it doesn't work right maybe it's just like this is the easiest way to juice it and then one day it won't work and then you'll stop and try something else but okay cool let's talk let's get far before you i've got i don't know maybe fifteen more minutes
if you wanna yeah absolutely when you
well that's what the original thing this was originally before i got antagonistic device or whatever you wanna call it it was supposed to be me helping you with some identity stuff
yeah
yeah or at least give you some feedback go to market whatever and we haven't done that at all so maybe it's a it's a nice way it's a nice friendly way
oh let's jump in let's jump in so i think the questions the way it was formed in a way i think it perfectly makes sense perks perfectly a marketing company movie game as an experiment to get more users for perks so that we can understand and everything but in december we had a realization that look creators don't want to come to broadcast evm and no other tooling can support that so perks market cap is extremely limited with crypto twitter and that even people don't wanna pay as much money on so we need to think something completely different than what we are doing perks until then until we figure it out goes in the maintenance mode we support all the clients there are some paid users there are some free users we support all of them nobody like we don't rock pull in that case going forward but we need to look at something completely different because we are like at roots we see back company and we need to make money for us and our investors luckily our investors don't push but we need to of course take that responsibility on our our own hands so we started brainstorming and we come up with some criterias around ourselves and one of the criteria was we have to do something on chain like for god's sake we understand we have been in crypto space for eight years we have launched like craziest smart contracts in the past for our clients before parts like i was running a dev agency at that time and we built like like something like tornado cash before tornado cash we just didn't launch because we were worried about going to jail true story i'll i'll tell you some other day point is we have the technical abilities so we should use that to build a complicated piece that is hard to build and then also is useful so we started looking at different different problems different
within the criterias that we can solve and what boundaries that we should be able to push a simplest one that we could think about is like i always thought index funds were cool i always had thought that the basket of assets were cool it just amplified by 10,000,000 being launched in last twelve months with like all the shit things like how would you really nobody can do the dd so you have to trust somebody else to dd so we're like okay let's create an index one and one person puts their foot down again and say i'm not creating an index one until we find find a real multiplier here because this is that's an easy problem i know it's not done in the market but what is the real hard problem so two things that are real hard problems in my opinion that we need to crack one is people should be able to create their own baskets on chain regardless of what their current status is so completely non custodial right like it cannot be a finance company who is the only one creating baskets anyone should be able to create a basket if it's used and let let the free market decide whether it's valuable or not period and that's one part of it and the second one which we have theoretically solved it not on the risk adjusted basis it and it is still on the long term research and it's not gonna be v one but a little bit later i want all the baskets to be tradable on decentralized exchanges there is one part which is you can be deposit and withdraw from a basket from an lp like basically pdpo and the second complicated piece is can that basket be tradable on a decentralized exchange i'm pushing those two things extremely hard
my brother
i so
so hopefully we can do it stuff dude i this is coming up in my life over and over and there's there may be like i think you have a couple interesting things have you you have a couple of tailwinds i for if you can't tell i i'm so excited the first thing is i was talking with sam huber about like what's interesting about like clinker and stuff and the interesting thing to me about clinker is very much
it a lot it sort of democratized the hard part you know it was hard to build in which you talk about but then like for a lot of folks who maybe wouldn't have another way to launch a token they'd have no idea they have no coding skills or something it became very easy like this is the powerful thing to migrate make something difficult easy democratization really powerful like sort of framing right and then and then i started talking we did a little alpha for anyone who watches the stream we did a podcast with sri ram from eigenlayer
when did you do that was it part of this podcast
it's not out yet it's not this podcast it's the rubicon the one that we did with dan okay me and hirsch so it's me hirsch and sriram it's not out yet but it it is coming out soon probably next week and he had this really incredible framing about how like like trust and and verifiability that's his holding right incredible commitments and like bitcoin like was like you own your bitcoin and there's only $2,121,000,000 that's it that's the whole promise right and then once you have that you have some sort of value right but then you wanna know what's the fair value and that wasn't really able to do it until you had decks right and then you have this decks and you're like okay now we can figure out the fair market value of things we trust the smart contracts because it's code so we have value fair market value then i went to lending the idea with lending is you promising that you're liquid right you know for sure i am liquid for these assets but you cannot build the liquidity unless you know the farm market value right and i was thinking about the progression of these things because i've been talking to a bunch of ai agent guys but i think i i think i went too far i think i went too far too fast i think you're actually the right way i was like you could have an ai agent
few more ideas i'm gonna write it down
yeah so i went a little too far with the ai agent like rebalancing like an etf because etfs like rebalance right you need an ai agent to to do the rebalancing via smart contract if you were to buy a basket of goods that way but really the more interesting thing is just like let fucking anyone do it right like just anyone wants to make their etf right and like and then it's just like whatever itself right i assume this is gonna be like hard coded like either like there's a i don't know if you do rebalancing or not i'd be curious to hear if if that's something that you guys are are considering
i think it's one but it'll it's it's planned for later again we have the theoretically proof defined internally we are of course validating the theoretical proof internally first so far it has jacked out but again we are one week into that validation and trying to convert that into code in practice it's gonna have a lot of other rocks let me put it this way we're not gonna run into a lot of bombs but if it works theoretically then it's just figuring out how to adjust those risks and how to communicate that risk to the people right
yes yeah absolutely i think believing in freedom like let let people make mistakes that's fine yeah let people make mistakes let people lose money like i think
i don't want to say it out loud let people lose money is not what i wanna say loud let's say up loud
no i think it's a really strong i think it's a really strong message that we will let you this is not safe you know what i mean i think this is this is part of what is like really exciting about crypto like just from a very deeply emotional standpoint you look at billionaire class or idiots traditional finance no no no i'm like they they are saying they are the ones that are saying you are idiots by saying you are not smart enough you are not rich enough you cannot have venture capital you cannot have pe your network's not good enough so you don't deserve to be in these angel rounds right the traditional finance system is set up to say you're too dumb to be rich oh yeah so we're not gonna let you
investment is stupid like that that is a terrible bar
right exactly so what is this this is you might be stupid you might not be but you get to do whatever you want right this is this is american freedom is what this is right it's like this is this is this is like tea party not like the fucking whatever people that call themselves the tea party i mean like actual tea like dump it in the fucking ocean you wanna lose your money go for it king i don't you you believe in yourself right like this is this is this is how you met new stars this is like i don't know for me this is really exciting stuff and like listen i'm not saying just like go take your notes give guidance give instruction give instruction not bullshit like subtext like check this box if you agree that like you're a fucking idiot right like no don't do that right
i may do that for like some things but like i like that checkbox though
right someone suits you it's like your honor we have confirmation they are in their own words oh my god in india
i would put that in a like i had a couple of friends who actually go through terms and conditions when they sign the checkbox like yeah they are crazy people but of course everyone has all kind of friends and they actually found some weird terms and condition mistakes they send an email to the the company and they blocked them and i'm like shit
but dude this is exciting this is like this is real democratization right this is like you think you could be a hedge fund manager go for it see what happens that's because that's because that's the next layer for me the next layer for me is okay now that you can create these baskets what are you charging right $2.08 20 is the standard for for that because i also had the idea that you could see ktls copy trade binance whales and then have them compete for the highest p and l and if you have the highest p and l then this bot copy trades you and you get paid two and twenty of these i think it's
it's gonna change a little bit here as well so you're you're absolutely right and i think two plus 20 is also a little bit obsolete i wish i wanna like i i want to charge two plus 20 as a greedy person but i feel terrible about charging two plus 20 because i don't think that's the right way to think about it because once a decision is made my money is just sitting there and they are getting money for that like i was in like the the portfolio managers are still charging me for not doing anything in some cases i think the money should be charged only on deposit when you put money in and we take the money out when money is not doing anything then you should not be charging people money
well so this is one of the really interesting things right because like the two and the two and twenty was originally put there because it is so hard to start a hedge fund you need so many fucking lawyers you need
you need how much compliance do you need
yeah yeah but if you don't need any of that then just take the 20 and get how much more money right and then like you like you really think you're better than the market again go prove it
exactly like all those basic people go on twitter crypto twitter they say hey buy this sell this and just put nfa next to it and they're calling it like done those people will be able to put literally money where their mouth is
yeah what is the renaissance charge renaissance charge is 5 and 44 brother right
really
like red oh yeah the medallion fund yeah
no i i know i i i watched that the the three hour podcast on them i forgot the name of the podcast
the acquired
yeah yeah acquired yes yeah yeah
i love acquired k it was may and and they still no one will take their money out because you'll never get it back in that's how good they are because you imagine if they didn't have any regulatory overhead if they just put that someone should do it if anyone's watching and you know the remtech guys tell them to just put it on chain right make it make it a smart contract that cktl has verified to their own trading platform so you know you're getting the same trades right we'll have to figure out some way that i can make it obvious getting it or something you could probably do it with just like return like quarterly returns that they have to file anyways i digress you do you'd save save the 5% they could probably keep charging five and just like make an extra 5% which is probably a few billion a year or something at this point but
every time it's so crazy they justify five plus 45 40 40 five come on guy like he did the the numbers are crazy
but there's but mike i guess one other point is there's probably other people out there that are that good right
yeah
just like law of numbers right but it's but you need so much perfect things to happen for like red tech to happen whereas if you can remove more and more of those barriers you'll be able to find i don't know some kid in india some kid in china some kid in fucking alaska i don't know where he is
you know what
i mean he's a genius trader but he has no opportunity to set one of these things up he has no connections he's never gonna make it to harvard his family's poor whatever right the world's better if we all have access to his traits i'd be happy to give that kid five and forty four if he's as good as running tech
exactly right like that again that's the the goal hopefully we can just like reduce the number like again it's a it's a crashing down the barriers right like it's burning down the barriers that's what it comes down to
i'm so gas boosted i do i i gotta get hot i'm glad we talked about this i i know i didn't go to expect this i just i i we hang out and we have a good conversation but technically this will get recorded so it's my job to ct what there's a wait list right basket.org
there's a wait list there we are going to open up some some people on the wait list hopefully as soon as next week where we can just like basket creation starts at least keeping into it as separate problem so hopefully that happens soon
love it keep an eye on basket farm follow me obviously follow chinmay at chinmay on farcaster right and at chinmay dot eth all spelled out chinmay d o t e t h on twitter correct although you seem to be fully farcaster at this point they didn't even we didn't even follow each other on twitter
yeah we just realized that but hey thanks for having me dude this was super fun again we can have this many conversations we don't have to record it but this is a fun conversation we should have more of this
well i i hope you get some benefit i we didn't really get to dig in maybe when there's when there's more product maybe we can dig into like the go to market and like what you're doing
you actually gave me more ideas i'm i'm good i'm good basically think about if you can land their basket so they don't have to sell their basket
yes yes absolutely because you never wanna sell because cap gains are the killer right this is what again what every rich person knows right your helocs your equity line of credits it's like people like people don't
know jay know jay
yeah jaycee bought his fucking $20,000,000 mansion off a credit line for the entirety of rockefeller records right he didn't sell rockefeller records to buy his home he's just like the the interesting things that people don't know about i actually had a friend who was like yo like might need a little cash i was like just take a loan out of your crypto he's like what are you talking about i was like please just do not fucking sell it right just take the loan and like you can use gains to pay for it later you can get interest sell for paying loans the more that we productize that stuff and you can even do it in line with with like tax regulations for each country it wouldn't be difficult but
yeah
i digress this has been awesome chinmay thank you for coming on make sure to follow chinmay if you're out there follow me and catch you guys for the next five check
alright take care guys bye
later