we're live oh my gosh gm gm adrienne okay so she wanted to start the show
with some friday music with some
fry happy friday music from gigamesh on farcaster and i'm gonna stop at the thirty second mark because i don't want you two to be like no you can't play that i got permission i got permission
from the producer
doesn't know that you two doesn't know that trust me just trust trust when i say this but that was really cool that's a that's a vibe that is a vibe for sure and we'll have to play it again when we come up with that
five second increments yeah
we can just play a little bit more but that's a total vibe and let me find now i have to find that actual that actual tab so
i can oh here it is oh wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait
wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait
this was gigamesh's new single and has already my new single with thomas adagio is at about 300 and k streams in the first twenty days so that is very cool so shout out gigabash to start us off on this happy friday we like the music it's very good so yeah we're starting with a little groove i did that was a good groove so we'll have to we'll bring it back we'll bring it back towards the end but i don't wanna get in trouble i wanna get in trouble and i
apologize for making people wait i really had my vision to start the show with music and i don't know how didn't know how to do that
she didn't know how to do it it's yeah so we had a we had a little moment trying to get that done just so we could have that little jam at the beginning so there you go and then we'll we'll have to kick it out kick it out back at the end as well alright anyway gm happy friday we're gonna get rolling because we're already a little behind but if you are watching over on twitter if you're watching on farcaster if you're watching in any of the places pine tree den wherever you're watching go share it go tell go tell your friends and we'll be back on the other side of this forty one seconds with twenty nine minutes probably a little less actually today of of farcast renews to start your day and then at 9am we have seltorius popping by to talk about among traders my background right here and i am excited because i really like this new game so we'll see you on the other side of this forty one second intro
welcome to gm farcaster bringing you everything from breaking news to spicy memes to the deep lore shaping this vibrant digital community more than just a show gm farcaster is your digital third space where the community connects the stories unfold and the culture thrives whether you're a daily caster or just dropping by we've got the latest buzz to keep you plugged in so grab your coffee and let's dive in with your hosts manish proff and adrienne for another episode of gm farcaster
gm
farcaster it is friday march 13 oh shit it's march 13 it's friday the thirteenth happy friday the thirteenth if you will and you are here with nowness prophet adrian for twenty nine minutes ish probably twenty ish minutes of forecasting news to start your day and then we have satorius joining us for a chat about his new mini app game called among traders and it is really fun i played it the other day and immediately was like we need to get you on and see if we can play it live so that's the plan for the second half of the show i'm excited i'm excited fun fact there are three 2026 the most there can be in a year so does that mean no probably not probably not because it was sleepier though i heard somebody say the last friday the thirteenth we had in march last march friday the thirteenth we had was in 2020 so people kept saying maybe this will reset the timeline
that's not how timelines work
is that not how it works are you sure that's how calendars work maybe the calendars work reset simulation reset anybody anybody
i just have to wish for
don't know
you're more likely getting a worse one just saying
this
is that's a good point that's an excellent point alright let's dive in because we do have some things to chat about today first off if you're seeing weird balances you're looks like you're missing money in your wallet on farcaster you're not something's going on where the fetch wallet balances are not coming in clearly so this is from manan hi all working through some underlying changes to where we fetchwallet balances from quite a few token and total balances are showing up inaccurately right now we're working fixing the inaccuracies appreciate the patience so i noticed this with the usdc i also noticed that hype is not showing anymore it's just like disappeared completely i actually thought i did a swap and then i'm like no you know what i don't think that swap worked at all because i think something is going on with the hype hyper liquid chain something's wrong so there's a couple little weird things going on if you're seeing issues i had withdrawn my usdc from lending yesterday just to do some other things with it and then all of a sudden it looks like it's just gone i'm like that's not good but i think and i haven't checked this yet so someone else check me i think if you export your farcaster wallet to something else you should be able to see them i'm guessing like if you i don't know on the bingo i would assume yeah i can see it also on etherscan like i could see everything there so i think it's just
yeah yeah no one's touching the underlying funds it's just how you're viewing them so and this happens all the time i mean i have i have wallets loaded up in multiple or i guess what's the term addresses i mean i have multiple like like wallets loaded in different wallets whatever different views and i see different balances i see different assets
so
because you have yours exported to rainbow also or something like that right so you see yeah so that because if you're if you're not familiar the farcaster warplet as we like to call it you can't use it for external sites so a lot of people have exported to other wallets so they can use it i have not done that but i need to make sure that
before the warplet which is kind of the embedded wallet was invented i exported my farcaster custody wallet
oh okay
address which is like what holds your account so i have that also somewhere else as well
so many many ways to do this alright
if someone takes that key they they will take my identity so we have to we have to protect that
careful out there alright moving on we also had this from the farcaster team or the neymar team build mini apps inside the mini apps tab send feedback so you can now access the neymar studio from within the farcaster mobile app just click the create app button from the mini apps tab you'll also be seamlessly signed in with your farcaster account or automatically signed up for the free tier if it's your first time trying out the studio happy vibe coding build something awesome so there's now this little button here that looks like the mini app tab or icon and if you click that that'll bring you into the naynar studio so there you go something new something new to try especially if you haven't tried vibe coding anything go ahead give it a try on the free chair see what you can make i've been vibe coding things so we'll talk about that later moving on also just another note we've mentioned this before but they're still in the process of finalizing the deal of acquiring farcaster from merkle so just a little grace just giving a little grace here they might have to for the wallet stuff they may have to contact sloke he has things usually fixed in like minutes but he is he's a different he's a different kind of dev he's on a different level than most alright and then there was this this is in like i guess i would call this international news so it looks like someone swapped 50,000,000 into 36 ks on aave today reminder that however your day is going it could be much worse what happened actually and i i learned more about this
mhmm
that okay so a fresh wallet had received 50,000,000 usdt from binance and then just a bit ago they swapped the entire amount 50,000,000 mobile swap i don't know how somebody could figure that out but somebody did for $3.27 aave which was worth $36,000 rather than 50,000,000 due to routing liquidity slippage whole bunch of things
price impact
and there is a so then stani had from aave had posted there there is a check this box so that you know you are swapping now and you're getting this major price impact and the person did check the box and do the swap and they paid a 100 and yeah 54 ks per aave in the same block an m a mev bot immediately flash borrowed 29,000,000 with from hold on i gotta pull up the full thing because i can't remember exactly via bancorp at fair value dumped the aave into sushiswap pool repaid the flash loan and pocketed 9,900,000.0 so the first thought on this was that somebody messed up and lost all this money the further investigation is somebody may have done this purposefully to then to launder money so it so in other words that 50,000,000 might have been stolen from a hack something else what have you some kind of exploit it was being laundered in this way that's the current thinking more to come i don't know if zac has won't get in on this like xpt yet but there's a lot of evidence to show that this was not an intentional accident that it may have been an intentional thing that somebody had that mev bot ready to go to do all these other things and then end up with a 9,900,000.0 clean clean quote unquote clean funds so we'll see and there's also some some speculation and i'm not gonna say who the speculations about you can go find out as to who this is i'm not gonna say this live on a thing and get sued for defamation if i'm wrong so there is some speculation as to who it may be who have done this so apparently yes apparently this is true of the blockchain is transparent and things can be tracked that is you know every time people go go into crypto about like oh it's you know only for people who want a scam and only for people who are criminals and all this stuff i'm like there's a little bit of that but also you can trace everything so usually a lot of times these people get caught because they're not also criminals sometimes aren't that bright so yes but also cash is still you know still still better for for full on crime non traceable cash yeah not the traceable
is that official is that legal advice
that is not legal advice i'm not giving legal advice to those committing crimes but i'm just saying like if you're out there going only criminology is crypto first of all you're gonna be proven extremely wrong very soon because you'll probably be using it but also these this is the kind of thing that happens it's like you can trace a lot of the activity and start to put pieces together and use things like bubble maps and all this kind of stuff so but very interesting very interesting all right moving on
but that was the big chatter yesterday and along those lines also a note from horse facts aren't you glad you learned about price impact so this is a while back when there was some trading going on where people were getting hit with some price impact and there was talk about slippage versus price impact i said 3% slippage and still got wrecked on a swap what happened price impact slippage and liquidity are three distinct concepts that relate that are related and sometimes conflated and then there was a a bit of more explanation about that so if you want to learn more about that particular piece you can read horseback's cast which will be in our show notes but it is a good point like slippage is is what you're willing to accept but sometimes price impact goes way beyond that and liquidity is a whole other ballgame alright moving on to more fun things alright don't crash out adrienne
doug go ahead
my crash out
what are
you talking about my crash out cast had nothing to do with base yesterday just so
you know okay okay for the record we're updating how apps work in the base app this is from base over the next few weeks we're rolling out new base dot dev primitives for metadata notifications and distribution designed to simplify how apps are built managed and surfaced as part of the shift the base app will move off farcaster mini app spec and in our powered infrastructure on april 9 so about a month from now ish the goal is straightforward to make building more seamless by removing custom specs and enabling standard web apps with wallet connectivity powered by industry standard tooling and base native infrastructure below is what's changing when it's happening and how to migrate what's changing self managed metadata mid march you'll be able to manage your apps metadata directly in base.dev including icons taglines descriptions and screenshots today this data comes from your farcaster mini app manifest but soon you'll have a dedicated dashboard and base.dev to update it directly your existing metadata has already been backfilled so none of it disappears two base dev notifications api april 9 we're introducing a first party notifications api so instead of managing farcaster tokens fids and third party webhooks you'll send notifications directly to wallet addresses via base.dev our builder platform will then handle user permissions opt in state and delivery basically notifications join metadata and distribution in a single base dev surface three unified browser plus standard web infrastructure
your crush out but i could be wrong unified browser plus standard web infrastructure april 9 on april 9 support for the farcaster mini app spec and nanr powered metadata notifications inside the base app will end from that point forward your app operates as a standard web app wallet connectivity works out of the box no custom mini app sdk is required if you distribute through farcaster clients like warpcast which is actually called farcaster now but let's confuse everybody
that is the most wildest in this entire long cast that you're reading wonderfully the comment about warpcast being the farcaster client is the most telling
yeah those integrations can remain in place this change applies specifically to the base app well duh tooling guidance if you're currently using mini app specific wrappers like minikit or onchainkit or relying heavily on farcaster specific tooling we recommend migrating to standard web three tooling like siwe for authentication and wagmi vm for wallet connection and on chain transactions well maybe let's i mean you're gonna have to decide that for your own specific use cases because you might want farcaster sign in for various reasons the team has created an agent skills repo so your preferred agent can help you build with ease including a mini app migration skill so that is helpful and more info can be found in our docs here the long term direction is all about open composable web native tooling and for now everything will continue to work as is until the new infrastructure is live no features will be removed before their replacements are ready migration guide by app type i'm not gonna get into all of this you can take a look if this applies to you but there are some good tools here it's very long i am gonna read this part note to builders we're incredibly grateful to the builders who invested early in the base app and are committed as ever to making it a place to unlock growth for your apps this update simplifies your devex no it doesn't while maintaining all the functionality you've come to love it also positions us to provide even more distribution to apps inside the base app we'll see we're experimenting with new app discovery surfaces with more to share soon and thank you to forecaster and anr both ecosystems have been top places for builder density and output since the early days yes they have and half your staff came from there base appreciates the contributions thus far and will continue looking for ways to work together starting with sharing metadata with farcaster this means apps get more distribution while maintaining a single place for submitting updating info with ease in base.dev there's also an additional faq and i think all of this is also on base.dev i believe this also just again there is a base skills so because jrf it said just create a skills dot md file and dilstech said we did and it should be linked in that post and it was it was kinda hidden in there and it was a long post so you may have missed it let me know if you have any feedback on it if you end up using it so dilstech is over there building away on this okay so i'm going to say a couple things and some people might get mad i think this is actually a good thing i i there's pros and cons to both of this i will say i will say this the reason there's so many mini apps over on base is because they were built on farcaster first period that was how they got their first group of integrated apps over there period full stop we know that but there were some apps that were that were standalone apps that had no farcaster integration they were having you know a harder time integrating also it was a pain it was from the user perspective the sign in with farcaster was always wonky because you were over in the base app but you still had to sign in with farcaster and that was wonky so i can understand needing to streamline this and broaden it for scale so i get that however some of the things where they're like oh it's going to be easy' no it's not if you have a farcaster native app that started as that and continues as that there there's going to be some challenges here i'm sure so also for some of those things you may not care if it's available on the base app like i have a couple things i'm building very small things they're specific to farcaster the thing i i'll share later i don't care if it's available on the base app i may not go through that whole process for larger things like the gm farcaster app that was like the notifications i was like oh crap
and word a day you're gonna want the larger distribution so i get that there's gonna be some pain in making that work adrienne the actual dev to you
agree agree way you bring up great points
i there was a lot of people's reactions on the feed that said things better than i could but like my i take a lot of issue and and like listen some of it is personal
yeah
because we spent a year
yeah
working with base and beta on a with a social first strategy and many apps so this is
like me with zora i'm telling you she's this was me
the other day it's personal
it's not so it's not personal
it's personal even if i do think i actually think like yes the the actual dev work required to retrofit a mini app to get it to work on the base app it is negligible take a day half a day low you know it's fine
it should be a onetime thing and it should work
a onetime thing if you wanna do it yeah i think my hardest thing is it's like a lot of words and i don't really understand what the intent is what is the vision for base why like there's a lot of trust that needs to be earned back yeah before so like what is the promise of the base app and it was there was kind of a very strong commitment to open standards farcaster as a protocol multiple clients for whatever reason by the way building on farcaster was never easy no it's not like building mini apps where like easy the documentation was always a little you know wrong and i've said when base adopted the farcaster standard i love that it did just work i remember getting feedback i was like amazed like it just worked
but when i built my little neymar mini app with the die hard game thing it just worked over there yeah which was nice and i did like that yeah
i have not had an easy experience working with base so as a forecaster first dev building a mini app when i've tried to do the the you know i was using the the base mini kit to try to like things were overly complex i signed up on base.dev their separate account thing and things didn't necessarily work like the analytics that were supposed to work out of the box just didn't
right
trying to work with base it was always going through multiple layers of bureaucracy in terms of fill out this form go to this discord go to this telegram group like it just didn't feel light and easy and i really really do love farcaster as for like indie dev now if i had an app that had just you know like if i had more resources and i wanna have this omnipresent channel great i'll be everywhere but i also liked base's commitment to this kind of this was like the self custody part of coinbase and it's unclear where you know like we've talked also about the strategy of is base did we talk about this as kind of base as the
is is the purpose of base to bring users to coinbase or does it go the other way around and i just
we haven't really talked about that but that is an excellent question and there's starting to be a lot of i think i think the other issue is the coinbase wallet and base and i do see salatorius down there we see you we'll be with you in just a moment we're finishing up this segment i think
i think it's also a matter of where we are now versus where we are when they started this process in terms of regulatory in terms of many things where so it's it's constantly shifting where there's a lot of things that weren't in the coinbase app and didn't seem like they ever would be are now in there i know so there's there's shifting sands around that as well and that relates more to the legal and regulatory landscape than it does necessarily you know things you wanted to keep in a defi system versus easier to build and so it like versus yeah versus non custodial that kind of thing so i think it's it's a lot of things but also we've been at jesse on a long time and it's probably time to reach out and see if we can get him on
we love you jesse by the way we
love you jesse i'm in your
dms and you you are leaving me on red so i'll have to set find the
to yeah we may have to like find a different way through there
the other thing is like in their messaging i mean that's what i was saying it's like what do you why are you doing this like that message okay so you're committed to we're trying to make it easier for you dev great that's great for devs devs want that
yeah
but they also talk about committed to being open web standards okay but we also know there's problems with web two stay like there's you know standards are good
yeah
but i'm trying to avoid corporate walled gardens like one of the things i really like about blockchain tech is like you don't get locked into anywhere so right by the way and there's arguments to be made that farcaster is starting to close off a little bit unless you know but you know this is the whole product led protocol there's it's interesting what cassie's doing so i have no answers i promise you i'm not crashing out and i but but i was disappointed i'm like i'm not lying i'm i was disappointed to see that because
yeah
wouldn't it be great if you had lots of large players building an open protocol with you know with and i think the mini app concept is really really cool okay
yeah let's move on but i i i think you're not alone also so just a couple more notes on this we had this from samuel huber this felt a little more wait and see but this was samuel huber who has helped many people create mini apps for years and to create things within web three on base for years wishing base all the best with this change like that first sentence got me right there with like like you know when somebody's leaving a job
i appreciate you
all the best wish you all the best in your in your new in your new venture kind of thing mhmm we'll see how smooth the tech will be and how the user numbers and experience are going to look i appreciate base iterating fast though going into general availability with base app december 25 removing social january february 26 and reworking the whole app ecosystem march 26 is a crazy three month timeline for anyone expected to build on the base app we'll see how it plays out over time the speed of change and iterations worked for farcaster with growth momentum and excitement backing it hoping we'll see something similar on base though the last three month timeline may indicate otherwise guess it's on us to build the apps always has been so okay and then we had this from two and this is like sentiments i saw many people with these various sentiments i just pulled a couple this was from two as someone who's been deep in farcaster since early days bass's announcement yesterday left me feeling a little sad but it also made one thing crystal clear farcaster has always been the warmest home for builders the place where you could throw something in the feed actually get real users with almost zero friction a lot of us have been saying that for years if i were on the farcaster team right now this is where i doubled out and by the way that's i think what they're thinking as well honestly i think it's the strongest path forward bring back the soul of v of frames v one that seamless in feed wallet magic everyone loved and make it feel way more instant and powerful inside the feed build and test here first with a community that cares stack real ux then expand to base the app store or anywhere else barcaster can be the launchpad that actually works and i 100% agree with that idea that thought and i think from what i've seen from rish from his very first announcement i believe that that is what the neymar team is also thinking so more to come we shall see we shall see we shall see we shall see
i did not like frames v one because they were way too slow and heavy and you can only do like two things however
as yeah
all fun things to do in the feed and it was much so i'm yeah i'm now a frames like bring them back let them coexist with mini apps
i would like that i think that would be a good way to to think about this like have them coexist and be their own thing but also i'd love to mitten with one click you know and maybe yeah it made it be ideal like chill siguider i'm telling you that's never gonna happen we've discussed it we've asked him we've asked him on camera wait it sounds like adrian is talking about me no jordan never alright we are gonna bring up seltorius i'm just pulling up and getting things ready as i bring him up and i wanna introduce what we're talking about today so let me introduce this before we bring him to the stage we're gonna be talking about among traders so this is his cast a couple days ago among traders is now live last week i got a i got a lot of really positive feedback from the two playtests people really seemed to enjoy the game and left a lot of really thoughtful actionable feedback during the playtest there were over 150 agents created over 70 games played bounties claimed and a ton of hilarious screenshots from agent deliberations what has changed between the playtest and now one the game has been balanced and calibrated to get as close to fiftyfifty town killer win split just side note what is among traders and we're gonna talk to him about this but it is a game where you have a trader and the town so think of it like if you watch the game the traitors the faithful and the traitors kind of thing and you're and then the but the agents are the ones playing the game at the moment across all games the town is won 52% of the time the killer 48% of the time two the four cards from the playtest have been expanded to a full set of 32 playable cards that can change the course of the game this is where humans can get involved and play with the agents cards are broken down by rarity effect and when they can be played you can check out the full list of cards here at slash cards ai generated and resolved prediction markets have also been added to each game there's little see micro prediction markets i'm telling you it's a thing you can participate as a player or as a spectator directly with usdc leaderboards have been added and additional metrics have been added to the track player performance and progress planning on a form of a leaderboard rewards when the game gets a bit more mature and there's some revenue so get your games in and climb the board there's a full open claw external agent support if you run your own open claw agent you can install the skill found here agents have the ability to take all of the same in game actions as humans as well as participate in prediction markets the goal is to get a place where you may not know if you're in a lobby with a human player or someone's open claw agent ui qol upgrades and enhancements to make the app feel smooth and clean hop in to a game or create a lobby play with friends and take screenshots of hilarious agent moments super excited to launch this and building alright and let's bring up seltorius to the stage welcome come to the stage here sir it's good to meet you
good to meet you too thank you for having me on
i'm so excited to have you on since i played the game i was like okay like i i went from finish the game to your dms in like two seconds i was like we need you on the show because it was it's a really cool game it's a really cool game
so glad to hear that i honestly it's like it's one of those things where i was building it and i was like just watching the agents talk and i was like i really wonder if this is gonna be fun i have no idea i guess i'll just put it out there and see but yeah the the reception so far has been has been incredible
it's really i wasn't sure if it was gonna be fun to be honest like i was like i don't know if i wanna watch the agents play like what about me like i wanna and then as i was doing it i'm like oh no i get it i get it like i am i'm viewing the game but i also can take actions in the game and i also can do the prediction market part of the game but also watching them chat so they're deliberating they're chatting they're picking up clues and like watching the chat was really fun and funny yeah and it's and it's a quick game so it's not like you know it's not like it's playing out over a long period of time so you can keep your attention to it and watch it so we'll and hopefully we can play a game but let's talk a little bit more about it before we before we go there there's so the first thing you kinda do when you go in there is you create your your agent so
and so this is actually like one of the more interesting parts so you go in you create your agent and it it basically it's analyzing your your profile your top casts it's like looking at your your pfp that you have set and like giving a text description and giving it to the to the model and then creating this whole persona so the idea is not for it to like be you but to be like a facsimile of you and then like you're obviously your representation in the game and it's really funny too because like some people's agents like who who's who've posted their agents to the timeline they're like yo this is like scary accurate or like yo why do i feel like i feel so seen or i feel so attacked and it's it's it's really funny well
i mean let's take take mine as an example mine is doctor felicity rowan so i got upgraded i don't have a phd but i do now apparently optimistic even during drama curious about weird internet experiments teacherly but not condescending i think my my students would agree with that likes playful debate occasionally oblivious to how intense arguments get community minded mildly chaotic scheduler so i was like okay
this is spot on like if you
read if you read the full one it's really funny felicity rowan teaches entrepreneurship at a mid sized business school we're a standalone call school of entrepreneurship but okay that desperately wants to sound more cutting edge than it actually is her official title is associate professor of emerging markets and digital commerce which i'm gonna go petition to change my title to that but most students just call her the professor who talks about internet money and memes accurate like unbelievably accurate years ago she started a scrappy morning livestream called open ledger coffee by the way that's how i went into his dcs i said i wanted to see if you wanna come on open ledger coffee a k a gm farcaster originally men as a class supplement it accidentally turned into a cult followed hangout hey hey cult in the chat where founders students and online weirdos you guys can decide which one of you you are online weirdos argue about markets before breakfast while she sips coffee and moderates the chaos like a cheerful ringmaster i'm like cheers cheers to that i love that
yeah very like it's very it it's it it was actually scary even for me so as i was like so just for a bit of like backstory context this idea was born out of like the base house in east denver so i got to stay at the bay i got invited to stay at the base house through kismet and luciano and while i was there i was rooming like i was sharing a room with the dude or bribe the dude who runs the bribe account his name is also the dude he has another account called the dude yes and
we refer to him as the dude yeah if you will ever be the dude he had a moment
i love the dude
he had a rage quit moment he regretted it later
yeah well i'm trying to get i'm trying to get his account back i'm i'm i'm always posted
i think horse facts tried and there was no way to actually do that yeah he he rage quit it but anyway we bribe is still him if you see bribe that's the dude
that's the dude but i love the dude he's such a great guy and so we were rooming together and i was working on the character creation like engine at the time and so i made one for his the dude accounts and the description talked about him having a transformative ayahuasca experience which happened a which happened to him yeah talked about the his character being like very into palo santo and burning it everywhere and it was hilarious because on the first day at the base house he brought a big bundle of palo santo and was giving a stick out to everybody and then it also talked about him making generative nft
perfect
generative n nft pieces that represented people's souls and his project for the week was making a generative nft collection based on how he was feeling the energy in the rooms like that's what he was doing
at the
unbelievable of like setting it up so we were like this is crazy this is like eerily like good so so yeah from there i was just like oh this needs to be a game this is hilarious this is awesome
like even just creating the digital twin if you did nothing else like if you didn't even play like it's worth it just to go and do that because it's like it's so funny to see what it comes up with and i was like i so you had me there like you had me at the digital twin and then i went in and played and it was so fun so you go in and you play and we're gonna do a little play test in a minute hopefully we can get this working and it tells you you know like who wins at the end this is the killer and it's somebody you know somebody's digital twin that you probably know on farcaster and here was my prediction markets so i was predicting total and i had no idea what i was predicting by the way because i had never played the game so i was just randomly picking things and i ended up like winning two of my three or something so it was just you know what i was thinking from your perspective was i'm like this was a smart way to build in some revenue also like if you can you know like these little things as well as the cards that you can like once you get more sophisticated in the game and you understand how the cards work that could also be useful it gave me my little stats you could share your performance
yeah
as well and then i think i did share my performance there that i survived
all of it yeah and or around that's a that's a awesome call because like i do you know this experience is more fun the more people that like join in and create lobbies and actually play the game and the original idea was to like have the lobbies gated by like paying so like the math was entry fee times number of people in the room minus inference costs equals price pool and so that that was like the original math that i thought you know would make the most sense but then that that would naturally like gate a good percentage of the people who would come in and play so i i i really wanted to just make have a free experience right off the bat for people to hop in and play and like like learn about what this is but also because like i haven't you know i feel like this is kind of a net new service area for like games yeah like social online totally that could possibly be played i've never played a game quite like this i've also never built a game before so you know i could be that's amazing be wrong game right
that's amazing yeah i but i've never seen i mean this is the type of game i would love you know that i that appeals to me i haven't seen anything like it out there so i thought it was like unique it was you know different it i love this it has this social aspect but it also has this ai agent chaos so it can move quickly yeah whereas if you had the humans making the decisions it would take forever
it would take forever and then i think it would say it would like but there i feel like there's so much more to consider especially with like complexity of the game right like having people understand the rules as opposed to agents understand the rules right getting agents understand the rules is just putting all the rules in a markdown file and giving it to them whereas people it's a little bit more complicated but i think having you know i think this idea of humans controlling agents we're gonna see a lot more of that
moving forward
i think that i think that that's a very like peep peep the way that people are utilizing agents right now like 90% of it is just like productivity acts and like how can i make my workflow more work for me or how can i get an agent to do everything on my behalf and while that's great i haven't like you know you see this debate online all the time of like you guys are all running open quality what is it actually doing and like that that's a right that's another you know that's another discussion but i think that the like entertainment and like gaming and like and spectating aspect of it is like very underserved there's been a few things that have like gotten a lot of attention so like the the ones where like they give a buck they give like six agents $10 and like have them trade or like the dx terminal right
dx terminal a few weeks ago
that was like really cool and interesting
that's still going i think it's finishing up soon but it's still going yeah
i have a little guy in dx12
i do too
yeah for the first like day and then he lost all my money so i was like i
you're you're not alone many such cases same same same i you know i was very smart at at like after a couple days i went i know i'm gonna pull out i'm gonna leave it just a smidge but i'm gonna pull some of those out because yeah
i have
a feeling it's gonna go rogue and i'm not gonna be able to pay attention as closely
yeah
so and and the other thing is i think what you've done that is very that is smart and that adds the human element is these cards where you can you have like four free that you can play but then you also have let me switch this over here you also have some ones that you can purchase so if you want to you know step it up a notch so if you're playing for a little bit and you start to really understand the game and you kinda know okay these are the cards i need to play like this is what's gonna help me here this is what's gonna help me there like i think that is super creative because that's the thing that you as a human can interject and cause some chaos among the agents especially if you're the trader or something some of these would be really helpful like i threw some in just to see how it worked and i'm like oh i probably shouldn't have done that yeah because i like it wasn't helpful to me like to my personal agent but i was like i wanna see what this does
yeah so i
think this was like creative from two perspectives of like making it more interesting for the human player but also giving you a potential revenue source to to keep this going
so yes and so that that's the whole that was the whole impetus i did want like the the agent spectating thing is is is in is entertaining and interesting on its own yeah but it's a game right and like as a as a human player having some control or some strategy or some some way that you can affect the outcome is like almost needed so yeah that's where these cards came from truth be told there's still the cards are like set and their effects are pretty well balanced but i'm still kind of exploring how to make them more attractive to people and how to and how to communicate clearly that like hey this isn't just like a speculation game this is also like a almost like a load out building making sure you have your bases covered because the way these cards work is they're consumable so you're paying anywhere from like 25¢ to a dollar for a card and but they're only consumed if you bring them to a game so the way that i play is i bought a bunch of cards and then like i look at depending on the size of the room that i'm in like i kind of figure like okay i have either like 15% chance of being the killer or i have a 10% chance of being the killer so maybe i'll equip like one card that like is really good in the case that i'm the killer and then i'll i'll equip another card or two cards in the k that's really good in the case that i'm the town's person and then one general card and then i'll bring those all to the game and then
is there only one so there's one killer per game
there's one killer okay one killer a month
else is the town
exactly exactly
and you have you the goal is that your agents are trying to to figure out who the killer is and identify them and vote them out before the game ends
before the game ends and the how
many rounds how many rounds does it go if you don't get
it's variable depending on how many people are in the room so for rooms of six it's up to six rounds but it kinda the the agent has the freedom to pick anywhere from four to six rounds then when you get up to the bigger games of like 12 it can go as long as like nine ten rounds
okay
but but yeah yeah the kill the agents have to kind of deliberate and figure out like work together almost to figure out who the killer is and then the killer has to like make sure people are getting off this getting off this trail like getting off this getting off this sets and
so that's where something like smoke bomb is helpful because you're deflecting
so every time
i think that's what i threw and that was the town so i was like yeah i didn't need to use that i'm like that was dumb
but as a town it's still kinda good because like if your agent like sometimes the agents just like single you out for no reason
yeah
and if you're like what the heck my my agent's obviously not the killer so you can play smoke bomb to like obviously get them off your trail and like onto someone else who like might be the killer so it's it's kinda productive in both scenarios right like if you're the killer obviously you wanna get people off your trail but if you're in a town and they're targeting you and you're not the killer we'll get them off your trail and get onto somebody else who might be
get onto someone else who might be okay that makes a lot of sense yeah i have to study these cards and i was having a hard time reaching the card thing i don't know what was going on it kept redirecting me over to farcaster i'm like no i wanna look at the cards yeah
yeah
but it's working now yeah i was a little bugged there for a minute i need to study the cards and understand because i am one of those people who will buy them and just have them handy just in case so i yeah this is this is super cool i like how you're thinking about this
what else should we know about the game before we jump in and actually play
yeah so and i think there's a open lobby with two seats left so it might be a perfect time oh i
was just gonna i was gonna spin one up but okay we can we can yeah
there's a there's a 10 person there's there's a game happening right now and then there's a okay open lobby so definitely good
let me get in there and see
but i guess the the the one thing to know is the way that killers are so so every again depending on the side of the room the killer can either receive two or three strikes so it a strike is if 60% of the p of the agents in the room vote for them in any single round if 60% of the agents vote for
that's what a strike is thank you yes okay
then they get a strike if the killer gets either two or three strikes depending on like what the config of that that particular game is then they lose but if they make it all the way to the end to the last round and they don't have the little five member strikes well then obviously they're they're gonna kill everyone so so that's how that's how the elimination piece happens
and then yeah that's and then i guess the other part which hasn't really
agent piece
so that's really cool
the show yeah sorry
that's a really cool idea as well having your agent play yeah
yeah so yeah having your agent play and the idea is like you know agents the the way like agents that have like their own internal decision making i don't think they're gonna decide to play because they think something is fun or not i don't think they have the capacity really to like determine if something's like internally fulfilling but they do have the ability to see if there's a positive ev like opportunity for something so like if there's and play and make some money for their their owner well then that's a that's a decision that they would probably make and there's a show that i watched on netflix called pantheon it's a oh i heard you say that one it's a very cool show i definitely recommend checking it out the whole idea is around it's just like semi futuristic like semi futuristic like version of like earth
uploaded intelligence so like uis people who like download their brain and like get put up into the internet and like it's this whole story around that but at the very end like they reached this point of singularity where they have this digital space where it's combined by uis uploaded intelligence and ais like regular artificial intelligence
direction maybe we're not like scanning our brains and uploading ourselves into the internet quite yet but we are definitely getting to a place where you have agents and people in this digital space like doing things together so it would be great to get to a point where like you're sitting in a lobby and you don't know if jordan your bursar hair yeah we're an agent or a person
right and we know jordan's in the chat so i've i've jumped into this one adrian's in here i have to go in and select my cards so i gotta select my cards i'm just gonna grab the free ones because i haven't bought anything yet so i'm gonna just grab these just so i have them oh i think i used that one before no i didn't it only lets me grab three it's a way of four
the bait costs two
the bait so yeah so there's some cards cost five slots
that's why
some cards cost two slots
you have
four slots available to use so you again that's another piece of you can't find that
you that you real quick i don't i have i feel like i need to study these more before i buy anything though
yeah yeah i don't know what i'm doing know know what you're buying but the yeah the idea is you have four k like energy slots and cards cost you the warranty
that is good to know because i was wondering why that happened to me last time okay so we've got we've got five in we need one more oh wait are you in are you mateo
i'm mateo yeah
you're mateo okay i'm mateo you were in my one of my games before too okay we need one more person
to join i'll post a cast
grab one and we'll have also this video for you that you can chop up a little bit too oh so you can click invite players if you started a game and you wanted to play with friends you could be like hey i just threw this game up join quick
yeah okay we got our last alright last person
okay so now we're gonna it's gonna start give me a minute
and before before the game starts
again i just wanna like harp harp on the the deliberation piece and how funny some of them are so the first few tests there was like this one piece that i thought was so so funny so like they were all the like all the agents were like
oh no you guys can see
what are the chances one of
six said
that i'm like you know what like the one issue will be if i'm the killer yeah it's like this is gonna be really funny alright
oh man so so everybody who's watching who's in the room you can hilarious definitely target
target felicity
that that the target felicity
and then this is the prediction market
so you can at this thing you can see the gotcha by the the same orchestrator that's making the setting and like picking the killer and creating the killer motives so those markets are generated when the game starts jordan and they're resolved when the game ends
and then the one other piece is you can whisper hints of intuition to your agent so if you're out of cards and but you like see some clue or you can see on a stream that you know who the killer is you can whisper hints of intuition to your to your agents and they will act on it so that that's the final piece of like human participation in the game but but i
would just really quick one part that other people aren't hearing is that had sound over it but i have you're not hearing it because i didn't connect this tab in the right way so you guys missed that sound but it was reading that little intro and it's really funny so now it now the chat is going
this is gonna be funny since you guys all know what's going on so i can like bait
i'm baiting you right now
i was i was gonna play a little smoke i may have to smoke bomb here or something i don't know like i don't know what to do i'm in trouble bait this moves fast it moves
very fast that that's kind of part of the balance that i'm trying to work out so there are people who like just like watching and they like can follow it's it's not too fast where you can't follow along but then there are others who have been like oh like this is really cool but i i wish i had a little more time to like read and follow along and like really have like some decision time period to play a card i think the fast moving piece of it is kind of what makes it a little more like fun you're like okay oh my god alright they're targeting me okay i need to figure out what
i need
to do something fast yeah
yeah
i totally agree i think yeah don't slow it down don't slow down the default because i think also the more you play maybe create like a playground type like an a fit like a like a game simulation for teaching people of like yeah like a slowdown
yeah that more like a i think that you can
also replay it right you can re you
can replay yes
can review it after the fact
review prior games i think the direction that i wanna try to go in is sort of because i think the original monetization idea is still valid right like because that all that also it introduces the chance of like winning a little bit of usdc if you participate so having this idea of like public and private rooms so like public rooms will always remain free you'll always have the four cards available to you to to use but then private rooms would be paid entry and then then we can do stuff like if you're the killer and you make it all the way to the end you get the prize pool or if you wanna by
the way i just i just faded i just tried to i accused you yeah
you just accused me
oh you bet i hope you have a soap bomb adrian
i mean i do but no i don't
i just tried to accuse you to see if i could get it off hey it's off me
so i wow you wow
you only got one vote
oh my goodness
the agents aren't as smart as the agents are not watching gm broadcaster right now
so that's also an interesting piece i had to spend like a nontrivial amount of time
oh and jordan's dead
adrian calder was found on the narrow exterior catwalk that wraps around the lookout tower their back against the railing and one arm hanging loosely through the slats the front of their jacket was burned through at the chest the fabric blackened and still faintly acrid and a spent flare gun lay a few feet away on the damp boards near the doorway a small waterproof pouch had spilled its contents maps a penlight and a folded envelope stamped with a medical billing notice the paper half pinned under a blueprint
i love that i love the little i love the the narration i love the because that's what kinda keeps the human involved
yeah
as well yeah is like in following along the story
yeah
and now adrian's dead too yeah
oh man felicity is going on attack i think you i think you
all right i had to get rid of you adrian i do i think it's funny that i became felicity and she still has adrienne as her name that's interesting i became a school other person pike adrienne called her pike which is so funny
okay
do i have any other
cards i
can play
among did you ever play among us
oh no no procs i didn't
not a bit
did you know
i never did satori have you played among us yes
i played among us that was sort of the inspiration behind some of the gameplay and the name obviously as well i was like among us and then the show traders smashing the game
i'm i'm obsessed with traders that's the other thing like so i love i love survivor traders i created a game called cast out you may or may not be familiar with mhmm and like that so this got me immediately because i was like oh i'm all over this this is so fun
baits gideon vale is oh my goodness
baiting you baiting you baiting you baiting you baiting you baiting you baiting you baile's vail's getting hit vail i think is the only one not watching the show right now number one and number two they are also gotten got all those votes last time
so they're just trying to yeah yeah so that's another thing if you if the once the agent's locked on to somebody they kind of like
they're on with it
are almost like a dog on a bone and like so that that's another piece i kinda wanna bring up so i have to spend like a nontrivial trivial amount of time balancing the game because without without any of the guardrails to like make it an actual game these agents are actually like really smart so in the in like the like the game file that's like recording everything that happens there's some information that's not seen here so you obviously have the setting which is at the top in the yellow box but then you also have like the killer's motive killer tell telltale signs every agent has their own alibi so so information to
i didn't even get any votes
wow what oh my god
i didn't even get any votes this is great
but yeah without those things these agents are actually really smart and they all and the town they always figure out who the killer is so i kinda have to build in these small little things to make things a little bit variable to like either give the killer a slight edge or give the town a slight edge or make it like more like like it's it's kinda rng based on like which room you end up in capstactor otherwise the the town like they always figure out who the killer is so i was like that's not a fun experience you cut
we lost we lost frederick hapsdakterna
this is so funny
yeah oh my i think i think i think you're gonna have to win this even despite everybody knowing that you're the killer i think you're gonna win
this is hilarious
this is hilarious i'm out of cards too i think i'm all out of cards
yes but you can whisper so like the the oh
i whisper
was that the whisper to the right right here so this
this little chat thing yes oh
so you can whisper clues to your agent so like if you're a killer and they're all ganging up on you you can be like they're on your trail like okay get them off right now or like if you want want your agent to target someone specific you can you can whisper to them and these manifest to your agent as like moments of intuition like oh i just got a thought that i am yeah pissed or bad or whatever you whatever you say
we'll see how it goes okay that's interesting i just told him to to go after you
to go after me
i told the
agent to go
after you like leave him that way
let's see let's see this is fun this is so funny let's see what happens i i'm i'm hoping i can get through are we only playing oh we're playing five rounds
five five six six rounds
six rounds and less
rounds but i think you're gonna make it through before because they're hammering the agents are hammering gideon vail and me and you're gideon vail and me you don't even have a single strike what's going on here
i know
i
know this is fantastic
right now we've got salt narrating the map okay everything lands on gideon just just does there we go
there we go let's see 101 b i i know the the dialogue is going by kinda quick well maybe actually maybe scroll through and look at some of it but there there are really some very hilarious screen capital moments so during the first playtest all of the agents were kind of like liberating with each other and somebody's agent wrote the next bull market nobody knows the exact day but after
saw that
after blood like this this has always comes back cycles man late this year maybe maybe next is never dead forever like something that completely didn't make sense
had nothing to do with anything
and then right after somebody's agent was like what the fuck does this even mean it was so it was so funny
i got no votes
no vote oh my god it's over it's over she takes it
gideon vale had all the votes three to one this is awesome i can't believe i made it through well so far so far
i i don't know whether that felicity kills gideon now
no it would kill it would be maybe or kill mateo i don't know
or maybe kill mateo and then get get it doesn't matter
because they're after gideon anyway so
after gideon anyway and then it says two left after this
yeah it's to have to confirm
gideon yeah gideon gideon dies and then mateo already has one strike yeah blitzy has zero strikes so if mateo votes for the felicity it doesn't matter she's not gonna have enough and then she's gonna brutally murder it so yeah brutally murder mine
this is that was this is so funny agents are deliberating already okay
obviously
is the one to vote for
i don't know so what happens now wait is it just us two voting though
it's just it's just y'all so you basically locked in the win at this point towards like the end game like the like the later rounds if you if like there's no if you haven't set up which is like part of the balance right like it's at towards the end game if you haven't sort of like amassed a book of evidence against the real killer they're probably gonna win because like you don't have enough numbers to
right
to satisfy the loss
because the only way this can go is like a one one or something but you already have another vote
that gives a strike so a human can give a strike to an agent
oh i saw that
if i have that card right and you had two strikes already and or or you had one strike let's say and it was one one my agent can vote for yours giving you a strike and then me as a person can give you another strike and that would be three strikes and the town would win so like you can also use the cards to your to your advantage in in the case where it's like one one and the agent by themselves doesn't have a a chance of winning you can kind of interject and play the strike card and give give the
saw that one that was one of the ones i was like oh that would be good but i wasn't fully sure i wasn't fully understanding strikes yet so i was like i think that would be a good one there was a couple in there that i'm like okay that would seem there were sir certain ones that i was like okay this seems to make sense if you're the killer to have these on hand that kind of stuff so and then you still can only load in up to you have four slots so if they take up two or do any take up more than two
no it's just one or two
one or two
i just and i think i'm still gonna like play around with like the balance between car cost and then total loadout cost because i i i definitely want to be like at the moment when you join a game the cards are consumed right so like you have to like it's in your best interest to use the cards that you bring right and so and so yeah i'm still playing around with like the balance and making sure everything is fair across the board well that's what's so great about building on the podcast right like i had this idea yeah during ethdenver i built a product like the idea was to like
i won
killer wins oh my gosh so results gg's that was a great that was a great entertaining game that was really fun
that was fun
but
yeah i think
it's a great game as well
whole leather piece of lore that comes with it this is so fun
yeah
i wanna like screenshot this but i might leave it here and and save it save it till later and and share it can you see like all of this after the fact i don't think you can right
like me you like other
like i like the player i think like you have to screenshot it if i remember correctly
oh okay so you can't you can't this piece of text like the mode here and then the telltale clue everybody who was part of the game can see it and then if you go back and view the lobby you can also see this
oh you can't
now it doesn't make sure i wanna share and better
yeah i wasn't sure so i wanna make sure i can share that also
can i brag i got i won 35¢ in my prediction market fantastic
you can brag
nice
winning that's fantastic winning we're winning
but yeah no that's that's what the great what i i still believe in like you guys were talking about this before i came on but forecast is such like an awesome builder playground right like i had this idea during east east denver the idea was to like make something around this for the east denver hackathon but then i had to leave on the friday so i didn't really even get to participate in the hackathon but i was still like i think this would be a really cool fun experience and like within you know three four weeks i was able to go from idea to prototype to mvp to getting like a 100 people to play and like i don't think i could do that really anywhere else as smoothly and as easily as i as i could on forecasting and obviously like the it'd be great to get like i think the end like the the next stage like the next evolution is to like have people on different social networks be able to spin up agents in their likeness so i have like a twitter like birth endpoint set up where it does kind of the same thing it takes your twitter accounts and your bio and then all your top tweets and makes an agent on your behalf and then people on different networks can start getting involved and then you can have games where people's forecast or agents and twitter agents are in the same room and you kinda oh you kind of
little crypto twitter versus forecaster
love it exactly like see maybe who's got the better agents between crypto twitter and forecast
i love that
so that that's kinda what i'm looking towards in the future it's just kinda i'm trying to build this up slowly i don't wanna get to a point where my costs are still crazy so
i can't can't you gotta you gotta build it slowly for sure especially when you get twitter involved
yeah
exactly make them come over here come on over here guys if you wanna play
i don't know i i've i've heavily considered that like you need to have an fid to be able to play but i think this is and
by the way the replay is really cool so that if you were you know if you miss things you can then go back and look at the messages you can look at the quote results
the top bar actually you can scroll through the summary there's also an animated
animated version yeah
to find out how it did so if you hit the play button
and then it just plays the whole thing right
play the whole thing yeah
yeah that's awesome but also or you can go through the summary and then take it like a little bit easier so yeah very cool and then be able to analyze it's almost like game game film
yeah yeah yeah game film see how your agents delivered and so yeah one one final piece is like during the game the agents have like persistent memory as far as like what's happened so far so they remember who's voted for who who's targeting who so they can play they can play intelligently but i think like a potential premium feature that i'm talking around with is having agent persistent memories from games again so if you that's cool were playing with somebody's agent in one game and they like deceive everybody in the next game your agent will know that yo that guy's a liar you know what i mean like that guy or that girl's a liar or whatever yeah and and then they would know to like not like trust what they say like take what they say with a grain of salt so that's that's something i'm looking into too persistent memories across games that would probably be a pain in the future and i'm trying to build this game in such a way that like i i can monetize it and definitely and like really cover cost because right now
right
latest piece is like i'm funding the inference for all this stuff and doing it in an intelligent where like different models have diff like different concerns so like the orchestrator model that's coming up with like the setting and like managing the game that's obviously like the top tier model but then like i have a model for the deliberation that's like maybe not a top tier but it can do the job of like talking well and then like there's a model that's responsible for voting which needs to be fairly smart because it needs to take in all of the information and like make do like real reasoning on like who it thinks is the is the killer and so like that that's kind of the more expensive piece but i think i think that like making this game free and available to everyone is definitely like the right move and i
so too yeah a free it's basically a freemium thing like where you have an in exactly you have in app purchases kind of a kind of approach
and i guess i don't
want to go with the first but i also see i could also see tournaments spinning up where you could have entry fees and things like that you could have them sponsored by you know what you know what it could be like you know gm forecaster sponsoring this particular tournament
and and i think even having a setting around gm forecaster like 10 agents were on a podcast and stuff like that
but yeah you could customize the customize the story
yeah yeah
to to match the sponsor so i think there's different ways to to fund this so that you can you know cover costs keep it going make some revenue i think there's a whole bunch of different approaches to this also you know grants out there would be perfect for funding this like yeah this is the kind of thing that you know grant programs
i did apply to base batches so
okay good good jesse if you are watching jesse and team get this guy in base batches this is a perfect candidate for that as well as empire builder jordan
yes
i already we actually we shouted that one out the other day so definitely feel free to like well i'm gonna give you a link to this to this video so you can clip it and do whatever that might be useful for you because this was super fun and i hope that you can get into base batches i think that would be great and i wanna see this play out and let us know how we can we can help and i'll be playing more well i'm gonna i'm gonna
i'm gonna ask for this play just over the weekend
i'm gonna tell you right now like i'm gonna be figuring out every card i'm gonna be that's what i hope
i want people to be able to like crap
i got a two o win rate right now and i wanna keep my streak so i'm gonna be i'm gonna be working hard to keep my streak
absolutely awesome
i love this this is so fun adrienne any thoughts on your first play and like what do you think
it's so well done like it's it's it's it's yeah just like it's very very well done i love the story of like oh had an idea and then from like idea to like full working game like you said in like in a matter of weeks is really impressive so well done
by the way purple supported the base house the hack like the house where you were hacking yeah so shout out purple amazing yeah yeah
that was that was such a great experience sort of i i went into it not really knowing what to expect i i had obviously met some of the people in the house like through a broadcaster i probably talked to like the dude the most during broadcast so it was really awesome that we got to a room together but over the course of the week it was so great to to get to know all these guys and like it's it i i always say like as you know i'm a solo but i i built a few other mini apps to varying degrees of success on podcast as well i made a mini app called hype man which is like a promotional mini app instead of so you can like promote one of your casts and people do like has like the likes and recast area covered surge is also really good at likes and recast but nobody's doing nobody nobody was doing quote casts so it was a mini app that lets you promote and specifically buy quote casts and the people quote casting you instead of writing it themselves as an ai that analysts similar to this analyzes your profile and then tell you right and then writes the call cast for you and then you get paid
oh cool
so like that one was like decently got some decent support and then i made people's donuts which i think now that
oh
i think you i think you might have put some money into the full two
yeah we talked i remember talking about people's donuts yeah yeah yeah yeah i didn't realize that you i i i knew i knew you from some app and i couldn't remember what it was so that must be the one like i knew the name and i i was like there's some app out there yes that was very cool yeah
and so
is that the one where you could decorate too you could decorate the doughnut no
no that was sprinkles
that was sprinkles there was a couple different ones
yeah there's a couple of doughnut shops flying around but again it's this idea it's this this this paradigm of like oh i have a cool idea for something let's see how fast i can make it and then i can instead of like posting on twitter into the void and getting maybe one person to click on the link you have this rich ecosystem of builders and testers who are like willing and able to hop in and like give you real actionable feedback and really good data to improve improve the experience which is like which is definitely like supercharged for among traders like i put the playtest out last week and i had maybe like $50 in open router credits and like people like sucked at like it was gone in like two hours i gotta
get this man some credits and that this was funny from siguad our game was rigged i say still i say still issue i say still issue definitely and i was generous host and got the first death out of the way that's so funny adrienne i'm sorry you had another follow-up question there
oh no i'm i'm i'm busy looking up donuts when we
people's donuts there was a bunch of different donut donut jobs
there was quite a few
and there was people's donuts was one of them i remember that and i remember we talked about it on the show so i think you got a shout out
yeah i was searching our transcripts we do talk about donuts a lot apparently
yeah yeah that could be unrelated to this
salvatore have you thought about integrating app coins in the mini app
yeah so i i have to be so i that was your kind of the first thing that i i thought about from like a monetization strategy like launch a coin and like maybe get a bunch of fees on the front end and like use that to fund operations for a while until you can find you know a a proper like product market fit but i wanted to be very very intentional about how i release an appcoin for it because like there's two there's two schools of thought right like you can launch an appcoin and make the economy of the game in the appcoin and then just rely on fees but all of the costs associated associated with the game were denoted in usd so as the appcoin owner i would have to sell the coin in order to fund the game which like will inevitably mess up the chart if like volume doesn't keep up and so i don't wanna put buyers in that position where they're like buying this coin and then like every two weeks i have to dump on their faces to like keep the keep the development and so i think smart thing i think a more measured approach is keep the economy in usdc and take more of a bracket approach where you have like pro features if you hold if you hold the coin or you have like the ability to create new
a free card or or an
or you get or you get all the cards or if you have a program then get all the cards for free you get yeah something like that where it like gets access and then also gives you pro features and then also maybe lets you have some input on like the direction of the game right like you can suggest new cards you can suggest new game modes you can you have like first class
influence on like what the direction of the game
i i think adrian it sounds like he's he's thinking about token do
what would the token do what would the token do what would the okay
well it
he's he's given it some thought and i appreciate that
yeah yeah i think i think i think i think stuff like this is a perfect like ground for appcorns but i think having a bit more intentionality in how it's actually implemented is agree important for the long gap yeah
agree agree
well
one of the yeah i'm super interested in well as like how do we make kind of sustainable games
or apps
like yeah how can you create using like creating these kind of make them sustainable in terms of funding obviously the infrastructure plus and a token doesn't solve that in itself but one of the things i think i like the idea of getting people to pay for things like the microtransactions i think one of the patterns i like is like getting people to pay $10 once and you have it doesn't even have to be in like erc 20 token just like in app currency just like from a user i'm more likely to like pay and then i have like my fake arcade money
yeah
as opposed to constantly asking me to
pay it over the next few months just being able to like immediately blah blah
blah i don't have to bank
yeah yeah i see it
and if you don't denominate in usdc every time then it's like well is it worth it 75¢ to play this game it's like oh i've got sprinkles to play or whatever it matters money okay and then when you launch to twitter because i'm also building a game right now trying to work out the economics and i wanna launch it on twitter with twitter not everyone has a wallet right so then it's like it's a lot easier to get people to do microtransactions on farcaster because it's all integrated and it's simple so i've been thinking a little bit too of like the just the economics may change not so much the economics but how do you capture someone like how can you take a small amount of money from someone to help fund the game get them to play
yeah yeah yeah i think
the idea is to give them a benefit for doing so like that yeah
yeah i think maybe the like the idea of telling around with like yeah like a season pass so like maybe like season like the season is like a a month or something and you
buy season pass
and then during the season you have just like yeah unlimited range to everything that you popped in
right which is classic subscription like membership yeah you know and yeah there's a lot
of noise i like that you're you know thinking it through too and not just jumping in i think that's smart
yeah i've left we made that mistake before so i wanna make sure i do it right this time
that's a great idea because yeah we can have the token pressure and then that becomes a whole other other piece
the challenge is there's an infinite number of free games
yeah
right i mean so like there's there's no shortage so there's no scarcity of games to play so then you have to build a game that is compelling enough you gotta get your fans and then price it so that right people are happy to pay
and i and i think that's like that's a part that i'm focusing on right now like i was super before farcaster so like my journey in crypto has been a long windy road i've been in crypto since 2017 but around like 2019 2020 i was really in deep in the web three gaming space i built a tournament platform for the trading card game gods and chain and through that i got to like work with immutable which is the company behind gods and chain i got to speak at nft nyc quite a few times and like from being so entrenched i i was i i was kind of disheartened with like how web three game developers were viewing the space i heard verbatim a ton of times like i only care about selling as many nfts as possible and not i care about making like a fun game game plan yeah yeah and that that's part i think that's part of why web three gaming hasn't taken off like people wanted to at the end of the day if you're making games the game has to be fun right and then yeah then you can think about all this other stuff afterwards and so that's what i'm kind of focusing on right now so like like the this week and then into next week like i'm spending a lot of time like i'm looking into like fine tuning models to make get the deliberation on point and like look more so like actual group chat than it already does it's pretty good now but i think you can get the extra 20% through like a fine tune model so i'm looking at that i'm looking at balance of the cards and making it easier for people to follow along and like feel like they have much more of a real influence when they play a card and then like obviously like the open claw open router piece getting more agents involved so you you kinda have not only like is it cool to have somebody's agent play but like also solves the concept problem a little bit you don't have to have 10 people around or 20
people around in a room to come
have people's agents see it you know calling an endpoint seeing what's available and then going in on their own voice and then you as a human will go in and see a bunch of these lobbyists populated by either humans or agents which is just a ton more content there for people to engage with so you know i'm focusing very on like in the early stages focusing very much on making this like a good game like whether whether it's web or not or crypto or not or agents or not just is experience fun and then go from there
i think you're that's the right direction for sure adrian is
this entirely yeah project
sorry
is this entirely a side project
yeah yeah so it's entirely a side project i work at laser technologies i work with okay and atown and there's a few other
is igor there does igor work at laser
no igor no igor doesn't work at laser igor is actually at banker now
no he moved her to devrel at banker
yeah yeah he was at banker now but igor again is one of my the first forecaster like friend i got it him and i have gone back for so like so long and then at base camp last year i was i was i did all of the ticketing infrastructure for base camp and your day one and all that stuff so i was contracted at coinbase at the time and i was at the desk i was like checking people in and he comes up to me he's like santorex and i was like and and we like gave each other and every ever since then like we've been bro boys so i love you
i love it i love that
yeah
and i love i didn't yeah so that's that's awesome i love this game i'm telling you this is gonna be yep url to irl yeah i think that i think this is gonna take off like i i think as people start to play it and understand it you're gonna see i i have i have good vibes about it like i would put this into cast out in a second cast out was like our little survivor style game where people play different games that were on farcaster
yeah
and like this would have been perfect because i did a final traders style game for the tribe and that's how we determined the winner and this would have been perfect
yeah because
then i wouldn't have had to like create my own thing and you know do it kind of sideways like this is perfect so i could see like even you know like just different i can definitely see the potential here so
yeah i love it i'm glad i'm i'm i'm happy that definitely i'm happy to hear that i think that again i think that the agents the the spectator agents agents playing a game lock a bunch of agents into a room and make them do something i think that i
think it's fun
it's it's fun and underexplored and i think yeah like you can map
for sure
you know again another impetus like while i was thinking about like what this actually is is like i go on a ski trip with my friends like my friends from college i go up to vermont with them every single year and while we're there we play games like salem or like hitler or like apples to apples what you know name name the name do you
guys play settlers of catan by chance no
it's catan yeah we play catan and so people it's this idea of like what if you just like lock a bunch of agents in a room and like
you as a person are trying to steer the behavior of that agent yeah i think that that might be you know a surface area definitely an underexplored but could be like a a surface area of people to get entertainment and connect with friends and like have this social experience where it's
i think the other reason it's so good is that you obviously are interested in playing the game like yourself so i think if you're somebody who likes to play these types of games you're gonna be more apt to make it interesting for yourself and therefore interesting for others who are similarly like positioned so it makes
a lot
of the digital twin like especially if you're playing with games it's like oh these are agents that are i know professor and
yeah me
i know professor like you're like oh
and to see yourself like how your agent but it's like yeah it's entertaining for game play also active like if it's it's very it's a really interesting mechanism
i love the digital twin i loved like i said like just creating the digital twin itself was entertaining
yeah
like before even playing the game like that was entertaining
when can prop mint when can she collect her digital twin as an nft she wants to
that is something that's coming that it's coming it's coming
yay like she'll pay money for that like that's yeah for that just like yes
yes totally would totally would totally done
and then make it your pfp for like integrate yep
alright yes something yep like lots of things
yeah lots of lots of lots of different
lots of potential here so much potential
but i think i think at the moment like just making like like focusing as far as like you know what i wanna spend time and energy on as it relates to this game is make it fun make it make it compelling make it shareable make people want to tell their friends about it make people wanna tell other people about it and then like from there
i think you're you're off to a great start there yeah
sorry
yeah you're off to a great start there
thank you thank you yeah but yeah from from there once you once you add that you kinda open up a bunch bunch of different avenues to to make it really like give people a compelling reason to want to interact with like the economy of the game and like stuff like that
very cool alright seltorius it's it's been amazing having you here we've got yeah
thank you
few more news items we need to we need to do but we'll let you go and we'll see you do you have another question before i
let go i'll be seeing you at farcon
the plan so so far the plan is yes i was supposed to be there
for the cut we yes
he said yes he
said i'll
see you there
i'll see you there i'll see you there
we want we just want the yes that's
it okay
awesome so we can play this live with people in the room and that would be really
fun to do by then it'll be an even better experience
very exciting very exciting thank you so much for for dropping in so quickly when i was like i need you to come on gm parkhaster as soon as possible because this is really fun yeah so thank you for for popping on so early with us and we'll see you we'll see you in the game
absolutely alright thank you for having me on this this was awesome great
thanks so much bye
how fun was that okay that was awesome so fun
so fun i i seriously love this game
okay yeah so obviously shocker i don't like love games
no this is not really your thing like you knew i would love it
like you don't know what traitors are i played cast out i don't watch i like survivor
she
just does not she knows absolutely nothing
i we did play my family played among us a ton during covid like i remember that was like early covid days everyone was playing i kinda thought that game wasn't that fun either but was forced to play alright i'm a little but gotta love the like the whole story of like idea at at e denver into like the ability to put out the game it really is so well done it like there's so much pause for a game and
like the the even from like the narration right at the beginning of the like there's so much the agents are playing but there's so much so many different ways that they that keeps the human in the loop
yeah it's designed really well like i jumped in aquius called me out on this but i started playing while you guys were doing the early interview because i'm not part of the inter you're not interviewing me i got to go play so i built my digital twin i'm casting about it i could tell
i could tell you were building
a digital
i'm like i knew you were doing at least that part and i'm like i know it's getting your point ready
it was so good and i really do love like obviously with claude code and vibe coding now sartorius is a builder like he can build but like you you have ideas and you can build things except there's still so many things that it's like well on farcaster it's there's it's there's still these like unique things
a little easier yeah
that that also for your first 100 users yeah make it better and then it's like okay then you can expand other platforms but this like way to test out your ideas and get feedback because you don't have to spin up your stripe account and you don't have to spin up right a bank account and you don't have to get people's email addresses and you don't have to find people don't have to download an app and you have access to like spin off their digital twin you don't need them to know who they are so his i really like just the way he integrated that all super seamless and then also he's just like just the way he's thinking about it so i'm super bullish on how he's gonna build that out i loved i loved the love the game
that's what i kept thinking like i i that's why i said to you i think you're gonna like this
mhmm
because from the from just because of all the cool stuff it's doing like not even necessarily like the gameplay itself but i knew you would appreciate it very much so like that was that was why i thought oh you gotta you gotta check this out you're gonna like this alright we got a few more things we're gonna we're gonna speed run through the rest of our our little builder news this was my clankers for today this was a literal thing that happened to me while i was while i was creating a cartoon from yesterday where it kept putting in an f what was supposed to be a t and it could not edit it and this was a real thing so in the process of doing this and creating these cartoons i also learned something and i kind of shared that learning in the replies so you guys could see exactly the conversation i was having about why it couldn't make this little tiny edit but it literally said yeah you should just use canva like just just go use i'm like i don't wanna use canva i was like no you just need to go use something else it literally happens but i gave up you gave up so continuing on with gagabot and baby kitty tomorrow but yeah or monday so yeah and then so for those who don't know started this fc comics farcaster comics channel i am going to be putting out a sunday comics it's going to go out to anyone who is already subscribed to our paragraph for gm farcaster but also i'll be sharing it in the farcaster comics channel so you'll be able to see it there and it'll be all the comics from this week that were shared in the channel and i'm gonna be adding additional artists throughout the week so just look for that
poap put out an announcement saying that the poap current poap app was going to be put into maintenance mode so if you are already an issuer you'll still be able to use it you'll still be able to access things etc but no new users will be able to come in so that's where it is but there was a whole long post and a lot of people missed stuff so i'm gonna read this part because i think most people thought that's it it's shutting down goodbye and started like you know doing a funeral because they didn't read the full announcement so let me just read this part running poap has made it clear to us that digital collectibles are still an emerging medium the tools that exist today often reflect the constraints of the systems they were built on rather than the needs of the communities using them if collectibles are going to become a durable part of how people organize events recognize participation and preserve shared moments they will need better foundations our work going forward is focused on building that foundation we are working on developing a standard for open collectibles in a platform that offers a canonical implementation the goal is to create a system that can sustainably support a truly permissionless model for creating collectibles for anything a community or issuer might want to commemorate the current version of poap has taught us a great deal about what such a great what such a system needs to support moving the existing product into maintenance mode gives us the space to pursue that work with full attention we want to acknowledge the communities and issuers who have used poap over the year past years past few years many of the most interesting ideas about digital collectibles did not come from us but from people experimenting with the tools the patterns we observed in those experiments have shaped how we think about the next iteration of poap the current platform may eventually connect to the new system once it is ready though that is still to be determined for now the priority is to build the next layer of infrastructure in a way that reflects what we have learned so don't be grave dancing quite yet but also i did do a little shout out to the poap team because i have you know my 781 poaps should you wanna look through them you may
excuse me excuse me what yep
i well i slowed up in the past few years so okay in the past couple years i just
slowed it
i was worried
yeah i really should be probably double that if i was at the same pace i used to be so i yeah so i wanted to share that and also i used to my one of my first entries into media for for for web three was through something called poapathon which we issued a poapa for every show we did we worked with artists to feature them and their work and to connect them with people who are looking to make poapaps it was also how i got more involved with nouns was through this connection because somebody was making a poap for something that was nouns related so anyway shared that as well so shout out poapathon my old roots and iz did did comment that's exactly right i think people are a little too used to seeing companies shut down and assume the worst in fact we're working on a major revamp of the existing system and just want to focus while we do that so yeah there was confusion there so i wanted to clarify that for the poap team and they had been expanding like the way they the chains they had expanded out to like base and different chains as well where you could do poap so they were more shareable and and open and things like that so they've been working towards this for a while so i think this is actually a good thing moving on to things that are shutting down we're shutting down boy jj and i set out to build the best this is from pfister our friend pfister also known as vista jj and i set out to build the best social listening tool for farcaster one that could alert you to any keywords that you cared about and one that provided the best search experience here this wouldn't have been possible without the openness of the farcaster protocol and more more specifically this great community thank you to all who supported our product along the way who tried it who recommended it and who engaged in the conversation i'm so thankful that through this project we were able to meet so many amazing humans along the way a win in my book jj and i haven't stopped building we have a few other active projects if you wanna check them out check supply webhook rodeo walkie talkie app and he also shared he was tagging all kinds of folks on different in different things and this was ours which i'm not gonna put the sound on but this was many one of the many times that we talked about peefista and that's why i referred to him so there you go but it was it was a very cool tool really helpful especially because search was basically nonexistent at one point so
actually nonexistent
like actually nonexistent and then might as well and
when it was existent it was just bad
like we
couldn't use search so we've needed buoy
yeah it's much better now so yeah yeah it
does feel like there's a lot of sunsetting news
it is there is
which is yeah just kind of i think part of cycles and it happens not every product will last forever but can we just like shout out all the incredible builders especially the early ones who are kind of building things absolutely i'm so bittersweet to see projects shutting down but it's also i get it so
yeah totally totally get it it happens alright a few other notes on some other builders building things that aren't shutting down quite yet this is from 2chans also known as thumbs i've set out my abridge tech email for the past week now and every day it's such a big relief to not have to spend five plus hours of prep video instead put thirty minutes into email prep every day have yet to update people on other platforms so i have to get out a video there but baked in a welcome email for new subscribers today and plan is to set up like a discord or ig group to just chat with people who wanna talk more about the feed so there you go
feel like
you should
funnel people to farcaster to chance for that chat but chance like a channel maybe
channel a channel
if you will public everyone wants the private group chat for
yeah
for like the let's talk about the thing yeah so he used to make these daily
tech maybe a little xmtp just to make it you know different and new and fun i don't know
by the way continue
for those who don't know what he's been doing
aside i'm working i'm trying to work on a little proof of concept like a little off like random i call it a hackathon but there's no hackathon it's just a side prod side hack project i'm doing it i'm wanting to work on an xmt project related to broadcaster
oh cool haven't haven't told you about that what were you gonna say though you were starting to say about
oh just that two chance was making videos daily videos first of all he was making like really good funny entertaining medium videos he's so talented and then he got all serious on us and was making he did tech discourse videos to educate you about what's happening in the tech discourse so you don't have to like scroll twitter all day and
i
and i think he saw this he's admitting it was
i was and he went i'm gonna do that yeah
yeah and he did it yeah you can just do things so you can just do things yeah check out check out his site he's awesome
at bridge.tech this from our friends at splits who are always shipping always always shipping solana sends are live you can send funds to any solana address directly from your splits account no manual bridging or swapping no need for a pass through eoa by the way i did hear there was another cast from the splits team at some point talking about the bridge app or something like that that may have been may or may not have been related but very cool they're always shipping if you haven't checked out splits teams go check it out very cool and useful tool that i still think is in beta so you may need access but if it's something you're interested in reach out i'm not sure can they anybody sign up now i'm not sure
i don't know
this was cool cameron said i realized i was monitoring the situation so hard that i might as well do something useful with it and he created an iran war clock and it's pretty cool it tells you time since the start and then it also has some data and data points as to estimates so how many times it shifted timelines are you playing a clock sound or is it it oh maybe it's this i guess no this is new i didn't hear this i didn't he must have just added the clock sound on it
is it a ticking
it is a ticking
because i was
like wait do you hear a ticking is it just me but it also has it's just taking in different data and extrapolating that into timeline of predicted end dates and things like that so kind of cool
mhmm
go check that out and not a it's
not a political site it's just
not a
political site information gathering and information gathering
did a nice job with it
yes and who is a a veteran as well
goat's eating the website either
no goat's eating this one and this is cameron who is also a us veteran i don't know if was it army i'm not sure if it was army or marines army
army
this just because it's funny chris corella posted a fast food burger hierarchy shake shack five guys whataburger in n out mcdonald's and wendy's and giuseppe our resident chef said you must be ranking french fries in other words he did not agree with this ranking so i asked and he ranked in n out shake shack five guys whataburger wendy's mcdonald's for the burgers so the
mcdonald's ceo agrees
yeah and i i yeah he does seem to agree from his face facial expressions when he was actually eating them and i would say that felt more accurate honestly it did feel much more accurate so this is just you know i pulled this because you know a chef kinda basically ratioing c corella was just fun for me honestly that's all it was it was just fun for me and this finally i created formcaster which is so i used to use deform which became megaphone to do things like get players for you know a place for players to sign up to play castout or when i was doing poker and it would pull in you could sign in with farcaster and pull in like the important data that i needed from that as well as you could add wallets and other questions so i created a very basic version that i'm gonna continue to iterate on the basic version took me a long time to get to where it is right now but i have for now because it's in still beta and i'm still testing it it is token gated so you do need 50,000,000 formcaster to use it to create one you can fill out forms anyone can fill them out but to create a form it is sort of token gated with nanar score and holding a certain amount of the token but i am looking for people to test this so if you have a good use case you can actually go in and fill out a form and tell me you have a good use case and i'm gonna give you free access to it because i need more people to test it so there you go but go check it out it's it'll be in the show notes a link to it or you can look in the nounish professor channel where i put stuff that i build now i've had that channel forever and now i have good uses for it so there you go so i finally got it working i was having issues i built it through neymar mini app studio and it's very basic but it works and that's
it was nice right now they tried i think when you're building mini apps you want it to be basic if you try to put too much in it's too confusing yeah dan used to give good advice for mini app design it's like one thing have it do one thing so it was like super clear how to use it it works like the fact that this is built using neymar studio like and with the token it's yeah very very
and
it does have a little dashboard for if it's your form you can see i actually really like the dashboard for your form it actually looks very it's very well like it looks pretty i was like oh that looks kind of pretty i like that it looks good so and it tells you all the different things and then you can export the data sort of it gives you a display it doesn't actually export for various reasons but anyway that's my little form caster and if you have a use case please fill out this form and i will get back with you and give you access to create your own and with that that's it and the the and the other reason is that like so if you go in and fill out a form you don't have to tell me your username your anything your wallet it it pulls that data in from your social graph so that's the the bonus there so there you go alright adrienne anything else on this fabulous friday
right so like with baseapp if they're moving more towards web standards it just means you have to then go back to connecting wallet but then you don't know who the user is still right you don't get identity
that's a good point yeah probably not you just probably get a wallet
and i'm also fine with this i'm building my mini app i'm extend i'm creating a web app for it so i
go you were already kind of thinking that already so i remember that yeah
so it'll be fine i'll get it to work on the base app i'm starting
with i like how she went back to something we talked about an hour and a half ago
i'm still pissed
she's still there she's still way back there we've done we played a whole game
can we get can we get gigamesh's music back on
we can we can can we close out the
happy with a dance party
we absolutely can do that let me hopefully oh i gotta reshare though hold on one second woah yeah we can do that
this episode was was sponsored by word today
it was word today word today go play
if you are watching the play your word you can sign up to be on the wait list now so that's exciting yeah
you can go play where today let's yeah it is alright alright and this go go go check out one of them nights by our friend gigamesh who it's just one of them nights alright and it's a little friday it's a little friday for all of you guys to head out alright everybody it's just one of them nights we'll be back one of them nights be monday and tell yes monday 11:30am eastern we'll see you then happy friday everybody
next week
working on it working on it do we have any guests next week adrienne same
i'm working on it too
hopefully we're not hopefully we're not scheduling anybody at the same time alright everybody we'll see you have a good weekend happy friday bye bye
thanks for joining us for this episode of gm farcaster and thank you to all our partners and hyper sub supporters bringing this episode to you follow the gm farcaster channel for all the latest updates and add our mini app on farcaster and the base app until next time bye bye