gm farcaster and welcome henry perfect timing we are it is friday march 15th and we are here with 21 minutes of farcaster news to start your day and with adrienne and anushroff and a special guest henry stern who is joining us from privy and we started the show a little differently today i started with the delivery at dawn which was an amazing little animation that was produced to celebrate the denkoon upgrade and the eip4844
core dev stewardship and every l two and all of the funds or 80% of the funds i believe are going to the fund the core devs so the ethereum developers who keep us running behind the scenes that nobody even knows they're there but they're the ones who keep it all going and that little film was to celebrate them and if you were looking closely and you probably missed it there's a farcaster arch in there so there's a lot of little easter eggs there's there's all kinds of fun things base is represented zora and of course lots of noggles which is why i needed to show that that was funded by nouns tau as a little thank you and love letter to the ethereum core devs so we started with that and welcome henry so today's show we've got a fridays with friends situation here bringing it back and what we're doing is we're doing our regular 21 minute show and then we're gonna do a mini interview with henry so please and i don't know if i'm supposed to be saying henri or henry so let me know
henry or you're perfect okay henry is great
henry is great okay good and so what you know we'll throw it to you to comment on things we're talking about in terms of farcaster news and just so you know the at times i'll be showing on my screen on on lonely the cast that we're talking about just you won't see them just so you know i always like to tell our guests this because they're like what are you looking at because i don't share it with them so adrienne we had a bit with we've have a lot of big news this week but the biggest is of course the 4844 eip the denkune upgrade and we had a lot of casts about this on on farcaster of course and we even had 1 a couple from vitalik so i'm gonna take a look at those first basic roll up scaling milestone achieved next milestones are likely vercal trees in history expiry and some info information there and then he went on to say blobs are part of the chain just like call data is today or rather this week default nodes store blobs temporarily but with eip 4444 call data is going to get the same treatment the end game for has for a long time been all nodes do real time validation p2p networks store history and sort of a few other notes this was amazing if you are still confused and don't know what was going on take a look at east stakers livestream that they did the recording is on youtube with the denkuu upgrade livestream and it was really informative interesting and exciting and they showed when it actually went live when the it's technically a fork when it went live and there was even a little blobfish ascii blobfish in the code which i thought was really fun so all of that was there so shout out to nixo and east staker for doing this amazing livestream it was really well done and then jesse kind of jesse paul from base really helped us yep
k you're gonna kill me to end up for interrupting stream is offline
oh for god's sakes
i would normally say let's run with it and we'll drop a recording later except we have people who set their alarm for 5 30 am pacific time just to join the livestream and i feel horrible
for that that it is offline now breeze hold on one second we're gonna get this going there was a change with unloney this week so i wonder if something got a little messed
up it's definitely brian's fault
it's definitely brian's fault we will blame brian for this i think it's on now i think we are on now i do see us so hopefully you are seeing us now on the livestream i'm hoping that that's working now i think it's because i went into the chat and did something so hopefully they see us now refreshed again okay so hopefully are we on now maybe maybe somebody give us a yes yes yes yes maybe i see us on the front page so hopefully it's working
i i don't see it on
i am seeing it on mine but i'm not positive if that's correct or not
alright i'm i'm gonna exit out and come back in and i'll tell you what i see
and let me know and i just won't go into the chat because i think maybe that's what messed me up so hopefully you're seeing it now but somebody give us a thumbs up or not
i see us
okay good we are now live but the recording will be fantastic
except when you go in so here's the thing it's on the home page on the front page of unlonely it says we're live when you go into the stream page it says stream is offline
yeah so just go to the front page
i don't know if this is dewofi who's doing all these things for you to see oh
sorry i can't now i'm not gonna look because i'm afraid to go into the chat because i think that may have messed it up because they have a new way of you can just launch very quickly but are they seeing the stream
no it's the same
go to the front page because i see it but it's weird so i don't know
when you click in i think it's
shows live on the front page once we get here it says stream is off refresh for update
yeah i'm i i see it on the on live so i don't know what else to do because it does say it's streaming and as soon as i go in you're right i don't see it but i do see it there so i don't know what to do okay so we're just going to roll and i apologize for anyone who's in our live stream if you're not seeing it we'll have to chat with the in lonely team and figure out what's happening cause i do see us on the front page so i don't know what to do maybe it's a mobile issue maybe try laptop maybe it's working there i'm not sure but we're going to keep rolling we're going to keep rolling and continue to talk about the blobs so want to mention this from jesse at base after 2 years of hard work blobs are now live on base before it was 0.31¢ for gas to do a transaction after 0 but actually 0.0005 while it's need to update to handle these new cost reductions so that's sort of the application of 4844 that we do get these amazing new very very low transaction feeds any luck is anyone actually seeing the stream now i feel so bad that it this is not working at the moment i think what may be happening is the new update is the only thing i can think of that might be causing a little issue so
i'm seeing it in the i popped open the console on on lonely and it looks like it's it's it's some issue opening up the stream on the client so i don't know that there's much we could be doing right now
yeah i don't think there's anything we can do because like when i look at the front page i do see us when i click on it you're right i can't get into it so give a quick if you can adrianne just very quickly sort of tell our chat what's going on maybe like our in the war cast chat just to let them know that unloney seems to be having some challenges this morning and we'll
will do
we'll ping grace and brian later
and we love you grace and brian but we are gonna be
grace and brian but we'll be today we're gonna troll you
hard fun
we're gonna troll you really hard but the recording will be out shortly after so let's chat a little bit about 4844 and henry i don't know if you wanna comment a little bit about that in terms of i don't know you know what kind of we'll talk more about like what privy is and and all of that but i don't know if that what kind of impact that has there but i know in general on any kind of transactions this is gonna be making it incredibly cheap easy smooth so i don't know if you wanna say anything touch on that at all
yeah i have i have two thoughts the first we we at prettier are very very excited about this as as is everyone else mainly because i think it it it unlocks basically a much lower threshold to try and put things on chain because it's so much cheaper to go on chain you can actually have your users do things as part of smart contracts that you weren't willing to do before because who wants to pay you know 15p for a a small action and so i think that's what we're very excited about which is how is this gonna impact probably over the next few months the types of experiences that actually get put on chain because a lot of what we're seeing with builders today is there's always a question of okay this is an interesting part of my product do i put it on chain or do i put it off chain and the calculus here shifted so i think that's that's really interesting the other thing i'm watching out for personally is whether prices go back up blob data is priced dynamically depending on the demand for blobs it's more or less expensive to to make what what are called blob transactions and so i'm just curious as you know we get a few more reps in what is the equilibrium price look like for this sort of thing and so that's that's the other thing i'm gonna be looking out for i guess coming into the summer
alright that's yeah that's a great point and i you know i see this for things like if you think about things like if we do web 3 gaming and you have in game transactions and things like that obviously that's why you know a lot of web 3 gaming didn't take off until we had better l2s but this to me even takes that to the next level where we can really do you know those micro transactions that need to happen just couldn't happen on chain because they were just gonna be too cost they weren't cost effective so i think yeah this is exciting into into those kinds of things of like doing those micro transactions are gonna be just much cheaper and even could be covered by a game developer you know you don't then you can you know do some coverage as well without it being super cost heavy i think
yeah i i the the the the maybe image that i like and this was a a a tweet from hayden of of uniswap is gas is like server costs more or less and the idea that we're having the end user pay for server costs is a little bit crazy like as i'm watching netflix i don't have to pay per megabyte of of downloaded stream i have this monthly fee it's obviously really hard to get these pricing models working in web 3 because gas fluctuates so heavily so like you'd have a bill that's you know $10 1 month and a $1,000 the next and so getting a little bit more flexibility around how we do pricing and and and bringing prices down i think enables us to to work in a way that that consumers are most used to which is to say predictable pricing
yeah would which will make it yeah definitely easier for the businesses too that are running these you know to be able to even have some prediction about what their what their cost could be because even if you were covering gas and things like that right now there's very little way to even predict what that's gonna be and the other area where i can see a huge help is in things like daos with voting and and you know proposals and things like that the costs on mainnet are insane and it make it very difficult to make it inclusive so we've already seen a huge reduction with that with the l twos and this just like makes it even better you know it makes it much more much easier for on chain communities to pop up and start and experiment without feeling like you have to really invest a lot to do that adrienne thoughts on blobs and all things denkune update upgrade
i'm sorry i've been chatting with our chatters so you see me on the show and i'm not in the conversation because no i just thought our live chatters of course are hysterical because we're not live and they keep talking like they're just shouting into the boy and henry they do say hello
they say hello i'm really sad that they're that we don't have the chat going right now it's like really making me sad and i wish there was something we could do to fix it at this moment but there just isn't so we're sorry
they're funny they're saying it's they're sisuffic ing our chat they're they just keep refreshing thinking we're gonna show up so i'm super excited to drop the recording later
i will get this out super fast to them i promise and i will you know personally make sure that there are regulars have it well i will make
sure of that
but we and we love you all we you know we love you so
but no i'm super excited about blobs and denkoon and and all the things
all the things all the things
and by the way the fact that also and i'm gonna kind of out myself it dropped and i didn't even know it was coming
oh really
no which just goes to show what kind of like you know
do you
know why i knew it was coming
because of the movie it's not right
that's a it
seems like a it's a very positive thing i think that you didn't know because i remember when the merch came and we had you know the the the pandas i thought that was an amazing sort of me with with the the black and white bear becoming a panda i i think like it's amazing that we celebrate what what's you know clearly such an impressive technical achievement because it's a ton of work and coordination to get all of this working and to get it working smoothly is is pretty insane in terms of coordination but also i would say most ethereum users shouldn't have to care and should just reap the benefits of the the the ux improvement and so the fact that we all know the the the you know the the 4844 numbers and that there is a blob that means we're still pretty close to the metal and so far as how does this thing actually work but at least you know hopefully the the next few developments that vitalik talked about will go even more unnoticed to a place where the infrastructure is like sort of evolving under our very eyes without it being as clear a focal point and i think that balance of we have to celebrate these like huge milestones but also it's exciting that i think it we were talking about what that unlocks concretely for users as opposed to specifically the fact that it is a really really cool protocol upgrade
i've seen that a couple times of when you know if if you don't hear a lot of fanfare about the upgrade that's a good thing because it means it worked fine and nobody needed to you know know anything really and it because and we've had we saw that with the merge too it was like the the the quietest upgrade right because nobody had to freak out everything worked exactly as planned and it it's you know again we see this with this and that just i think says a lot about the level of talent that's involved in the protocol guild and and all of those devs that have been working on this so it's pretty it's pretty impressive that we don't you know we don't have any major major issues it just it keeps on chugging and that's amazing and just gets better with time but i don't know if it wasn't for this adrianne i would have been in the same boat
like okay fine but i was drawn to web 3 for blockchain i mean like the it is the technology that pulled me in it's endlessly fascinating so i really just intellectually like to know what's happening and the fact you know it's just and and these you know the mergers celebrate the fact that it happens and it's no one's even aware i don't think it's it's just such an achievement it's really hard to do large scale change and it just seems like time after time things get executed and no problem flawlessly and i yeah
and there's a lot of work that goes in and that's why it takes a long time for go from you know with with this this was going you know for well over a year i think it was where they were putting things in place and test nets and all of that and you know it's really says a lot about about the the devs behind the scenes
the the thing i think a little bit about with this is clearly you know that this is part of a process that's enshrining roll ups as part of the sort of core ethereum fabric mhmm and i always i guess had a maybe backwards notion which is like roll ups are a solution to a problem and the problem maybe is speed and the problem is cost and roll ups enable us to improve both by adding bandwidth basically through these these side channels or state channels and it actually seems like roll ups are are in themselves a feature which is to say being able to say i'm a you know a base l two person or i'm an optimism or i really do most of my gaming on arbitrum things like that it ends up creating actually community around the infrastructure itself in a way that i don't think i'd sort of priced in but but i think this in trying of roll ups is is really interesting
that's a great point yeah i and and you see the you see people kind of align their tribe in the l twos and it's kinda it's kinda funny to see that that's exactly what's happening and i've been having discussions with lil nouns about moving to l twos and there's definitely tribal sense about which one and it's really funny and they're and last night somebody said is bass paying you to i said no but but they didn't give us a grant i said no not for this but it was really funny i'm just i'm a bass maxi at this moment you know that's that's where my you know i'm just that's that's the tribe i i picked so it's kinda funny that yeah you i definitely it's very odd for technology to have that kind of you know the that love that's like kinda weird love that comes with it
this is fascinating right and the ability to kinda have multiple l twos to find the niche communities and it will go up faster i don't know if you showed yet but there's a new on chain podcast
yes i did not show that yet
hey yep
we haven't shown anything yet we've gotten through one thing in our we're way behind we're just
it's 21 minutes and we're done with the news kristen but kristen asked us
i will show it
right now i guess yes i minted theirs and they're on zuora and i had and she asked why we chose base my answer was like because bass because bass it's just i did right oh i mean there are it could be other reasons
i mean honestly it's more personality that it's jesse really
the vibes are impeccable
and the the vibes are impeccable and the amplification that he gives to projects and things like that but you know i you could say there are people who will you know arbitrum all day long others who are blasted the thing so everyone's got their their thing and their allegiance now and it's it's i hadn't thought about that either but it's very very true and what's interesting too this week base is now on arbitrum through orbits and i don't even fully understand what that means but i think it's through a layer 3 so i'm like how does that even work i don't even know so we'll dive into that at another time because that's a whole other thing that i haven't even i haven't fur fully digested yet i just learned about that last night but we do have a couple more stories we need to jump into and then we're gonna chat about privy so let me go through those real quick because we're we're and we're just gonna keep rolling normally we do an interview we do a little pause but we're just gonna keep going because we've had a little a little different day today but i wanna talk about this i came back from class on wednesday to a whole new feed and it was amazing so this is from varun if you're curious about how the feed works now it's basically take cast from your following and order them in reverse chronological order move casts higher if they're from someone you interact with a lot move casts higher if they have a lot of engagement move casts lower if you've seen them before there's a lot of smaller rules like don't show 2 casts from the same person back to back add a couple casts from your 2nd degree network things that people you follow like and this is pretty huge because i noticed it without knowing it had happened i knew it as soon as i looked at my feed i went woah okay people i know are here again like people oh the people i really like and wanted to actually see their cast are back in my feed and this was exciting so and adrianne i immediately said to you i'm like i've been away for 8 hours can somebody give me an update as to what happened and i'm like oh wait a minute that's usually me i just like screamed adrianne like adrianne help me so what was your feeling about that like it was and i did immediately you totally helped me you totally helped me it was perfect yes but what were your thoughts on this new feed this new algo
i mean it was immediate and peep and phenomenal and i love that dan would bring people over to farcaster and saying you know like come to farcaster because we don't have a spam problem but you can't solve a spam problem unless people come in spam so the fact that that was a priority you know it's like look they said it's a priority they're gonna make things and i just love seeing how many people were saying immediate like just celebrating the the improvements in the feed so good job guys
yeah great job great job to the team amazing so i was very very excited to see that a couple other notes this is from dan small improvement to warpcast dc swipe to reply is now less sensitive it shouldn't accidentally trigger while scrolling so that is helpful also if you are not aware the farcaster dev call happens i think it's every other week and they had one yesterday the topics on deck for discussion yesterday were frame performance hub reliability feed improvements and dc direct cast performance and there is a frame that you can go check out on varun's and this will be in our show notes that gives you the notes from the call the calendar the zoom and the recording so if you missed it and wanna catch up on that it it will be there for you one other note from vee the team is cooking 3 ui improvements that i'm really excited about can't wait for this test flight to ship so that's exciting i'm not sure when that's shipping but soon and before i switch into really quickly dracula any other notes that i may have missed adrianne from sort of the farcaster team this week in terms of because they i feel like they've been just like i just they're shipping like crazy again they're in that shipping mode
just even when there's like i just was going back to the days of when there were little updates like changes to d like we would talk about that for 15 minutes we don't have time
there's we
don't have time
there's too many things
we don't have time for this i think dracula is the smallest one for the week
we there's all these little changes and there've been really amazing yeah so let me shift to dracula really quick so ted posted this this was only 2 days ago it feels like 700 years ago hello dracula goodbye tiktok you can watch this video and degen into it and earn blood for watching if i get good engagement i'll continue to make videos there but then very quickly we had some issues so cameron hey y'all just a heads up this profile me for me on dracula is fake please don't buy the creator token because it's probably a scam and then we had johnny with the same kind of issue nonlinear but we did see very quickly that the dracula team did address this i guess what the issue was that we were kind of under the assumption that because there was a farcaster login that it was actually like checking and verifying that you are this person before you create this account and because they had other login options that wasn't necessarily true because you could sign up with google you could sign up with different things so there were imposter accounts a little note from adrianne on that with her meme when you're not popular enough oh few i checked dracula and no one is quoting my name i'm safe
and i told you adrienne's funny i know you think i'm the funny one
i've been accused of being in the fur farasta wait what is the pharstocracy the pharstocracy so to everyone who's ever accused of me with a faristocat
i'm gonna have someone hide it there a fake it's just gonna fake adrienne profile right this second to prove you wrong it's
gonna be and it's gonna be it's gonna it's gonna link back to privy it's the website it's like it's the loop nope this is how this is not adrian that was it was really it was what was really good to see that they did pretty quickly address it and add a profile link to your profile if you are logging in with barcaster so they did make that adjustment fairly quickly but if you were following a fake cameron or fake nonlinear which i was and you bought their token which i did i did go and sell it really quick i think it did go up in value so you know i didn't lose any money
so
there you go but that is the interesting thing about dracula so just to put one more pin on that is that it does you can buy tokens of the creator so similar to what friend tech did but in a very different way so you're producing create you're actually producing content you're the user who's watching that content is earning something called blood which is you know think of it as points and then the creator is you can also buy their token and that is you can buy it with dgen so there's a connection there's some dgen
benefits there as well for trading and things like that so there's there's a whole other layer to this it's not just tiktok on a blockchain there's a whole other financialization layer for the creators which is really interesting if they get some of these other things fixed also the algo needs to be fixed immediately i wanna see people i'm following i don't wanna see the tiktok earlys all over my feed like don't wanna see it so i need some blocking really fast but henry what's what do you think about this new this new platform and approach
i yeah i i have a question about the the i wanna see people on following because it's interesting to compare feed quality in an app like webcast and in an app like tiktok because the algorithms i think optimize for very different things and i'm a bit of a boomer but i think the the the potentially what what's felt magical with tiktok at times is getting content that you would not have known about from just the people you're following but then end up being part of the zeitgeist altogether to to actually answer your question i think it's awesome i think you you know alex and and and their team have been doing a ton to push forward sort of social and understanding what can be built really uniquely using these distributed networks in this sort of work and so i think continuing to see experimentation around these new forms of engagement with content and in this case video is really really exciting and i think it was such a good call to tie this to the farcaster community in the way that it has been because it immediately makes it interesting at least to me so i've been i've been having a lot of fun with it
are you on there as well do you have an do you have a account posting anything
i i am a stalker i am an uber creep on these sorts of apps that i've i'm i'm lurking around
okay well go follow me i need more followers i made it onto the leaderboard that's good i'm like number 27 or something so i did drop a few clips from gm farcaster but you see that we're in sort of a horizontal mode we're in the 16:9 mode normally and then i had to flip it to a 9:16 mode and even using ai and all the tools it still needs to be tweaked so i am gonna need a much younger human to help me actually do this but it was fun it was it was a good challenge for me and i always like you know it's the way i learn things anyway so that that was something i've been wanting to do for our youtube shorts so it was like okay this gave me the push of like okay now there's a i thought about tiktok for us and i went it doesn't make sense i think that's gonna be a waste of time and then as soon as you tie it into farcaster i go oh now i have to do this and i have to do this now because then it's like this is our audience this is who we want there and this is also who i like to connect with so just as a user and so that's why i wanna see the feed of people i follow at least first and then similarly to the way they just revamped the warpcast feed then it's it's things that should interest me based on my follows i want to see those 2 for discoverability to your point or things that are trending and things like that but there's others that i really want to just mute very badly so alex let's mute i do wanna make one more note on this really quick is that jacek from dgen the dgen dev did note huge day for dgen and dracula yesterday nearly 1,000,000 in volume on dracula translated yeah translated into over 30 k dgen on chain transactions and more than 3 k new dgen wallet holders in just 24 hours so huge shout out to the entire dracula team for an impressive launch day i mean that was i don't think anyone expected that i know they didn't so that was pretty amazing to see that aspect of it too adrienne
thoughts i love just shout out to you professor because i love how you see something new and just immediately dive in and it's just it's incredible to watch and i was like i think i would need like 3 weeks to figure out how to do it and you do it and it's incredible just shout out
to for that there's no 3 weeks 3 weeks is 300 years
so you don't have time
i'm a little more of a
i love it i just a shout out for the seniors vibes so yeah the what we saw was this kind of massive launch and then you know what and something went wrong like the the perception and easily people could have kind of it could have caused fraction and people dunking and because what you know because because these are kind of big issues when it comes to identity and and safety and you know and i called it out but just kind of the seniors meaning we're all building in this space it's all an emerging space we're recognizing that things like mistakes will be made and we'll learn from them and iterate so the fact that we can kinda have a little fun at at the mistakes but also just kind of applaud that we're in the arena trying things and
johnny had a similar sentiment he said because he was one of the ones who had the fake the fake johnny out there and he said just wanna give a shout out to alex and the team building is hard it's very difficult to see with fresh eyes once you've been working on something day in and day out for months i respect their hustle and rapid response times and look forward to future improvements and then plus one kudos from dan on that as well so just to yeah same same thing there henry did you have any any thoughts on that as well before we shift over to privy any other thoughts on anything we talked about so far today
no i think you you covered it i think you know i'm excited to see the the the platform keep keep iterating ultimately i'm i'm always excited when i see new products being launched and new experiences out there some
alright we're gonna shift a little bit to our interview our mini interview with henry stern from privy and i really wanna start with you know the basics so we do have folks shout out shout sasha redd your episode coming soon who are new to the space and they may not know what you know most of the people watching are on farcaster they know of privy they they know a little bit about it but we do have people who are just complete normies so and this to me is a perfect opportunity for them to learn more about you because this really impacts them probably more so if you could just give us a sort of the tldr what is privy and what does it do for sort of the ecosystem
yes so privy is a developer tool we are if if we were better people we would be building consumer facing apps but for lack of that we we are a developer tool and it is basically a really simple library that helps you onboard users regardless of where they are in the sort of web three journey so if they have just started and they have no idea what on chain means this entire 4 8 4 4 discussion went way over their head that is great and they should still be able to access these systems and if they're extraordinarily deep in the space and have not you know 1 2 or 3 but 15 wallets across hardware wallets and extensions and everything else they should also be onboarded i think the reality today is that as a developer having you know client diversity is an extraordinarily positive part of the space because it means we're continuing to push but it also makes it really hard to build an app because you have to be thinking okay so i want it to work super well for metamask because there are a lot of users there but also i use code based wallets so i wanna put it there and then i have rainbow that i also wanna support and so on so you have to cobble together all these different libraries which ends up taking an inordinate amount of time and you know your 80% of your time into a project and you haven't gotten even close to launching because you've been dealing with how do i get users on in the first place so we help you take care of that we build basically a connector library that allows you to connect to any third party wallet super easily abstracting away the intricacies of any individual wallet and actually combining all the rpc calls into a single interface as well as an embedded wallet system so that for users who don't already have wallets they can get some really easily with an email with a phone number with a social login and they have a self custodial wallet being sort of set up under the hood for them and that's the idea is to to help make it much smoother to bring users on chain and to have them interacting with products in a natural way
awesome adrienne i'm gonna shoot it over to you
we have so many questions by the way
so many and like
did ask some folks for we asked our wow wow chat if they had any questions so we have some from there but adrian also i know has a few things to do
well just on a personal by the way sasha red does not understand what privy does after that explanation so we henry sasha's our she's we love her it's like love her big friend of the show but she's not she's not a crypto native she's a normie and i myself who i consider myself somewhat crypto native native didn't really understand the term of embedded wallet though i understand all the concept until this week so i have my own wallets i'm big on self sovereignty and and i wanna you know self custody all my things and i understand you're kind of in the space of filling the consumer crypto of you know meet meeting people where they are and how do you kind of have the crypto how can you have the crypto rails but sign up with an email so my understanding is embedded wallets is the connection between and the ability to like that's logging in i don't actually have to download a metamask rainbow create my own wallet privy will handle that for me
that's correct and for what's i'm gonna show a blog post we wrote yesterday called like making sense of the new crypto stack which actually kinda breaks down how does sort of these layers move on top of one another in order to create what we we typically know as a wallet so i i that that's worth checking out but i think it goes a little deeper than that and at least the reason when we were starting we wondered what do we call this thing embedded wallet wallet was a term we'd seen around there's a really good blog post by someone called gabby goldberg saying don't call it a wallet that term is so overloaded and she throws around a few different terms and embedded wallets it's one of them that stuck with us i think the thought for us was if i'm building a product and i'm really thoughtful about the ux that i've built there's sort of this fact which is whenever i ask my user to take a really important action an on chain action my user is immediately getting popped out of my product onto someone else's product and that is metamask or that is you know a coinbase wallet or rainbow and no matter how good we make the interaction in these wallets and i think for example rainbow and phantom have been doing so much to push the ux of wallet usage it remains something that's completely separate from the app and so it's really hard for me to craft a product narrative and to craft an end to end experience if i basically half of the time have lost my user to a third party thing imagine in gaming a user is about to take an action it's gonna propagate on chain and whoop there's a pop up in front of their screen in the middle of the game telling them approve this and so i think account abstraction is doing a lot to solve this and i think another way we can do this is by having the actual wallet sit a little bit closer to the app so that the developer has a little bit more control over how they do this of course it's an extraordinarily complex problem and we spend a ton of time basically making sure that we can give the developer a little bit more control over their experience without stripping the user of control that they should have over their assets and over what they're doing on chain
that's a nice explanation i just wanna shout out i did just show that blog post on the screen and this was the cast yesterday if you're building a user facing product in crypto today here's a quick guide to help you make sense of the stack and i read this last night and it was a huge help to me which i kind of understood a lot of this already in a general way but this really puts it in a very easy to understand
approach so if you are confused about what this all means definitely recommend taking a look at that blog post super helpful
i gotta read it today
i i i dropped a link in our discord
yeah and obviously like when we're this is a farcaster show and we're kind of like we're all in crypto but i'm kind of farcaster maxi and we i saw it happen with farcaster the ability to sign up without like with an email i just onboarded a friend like stood over his shoulder and watched it so here's
what here this is the big question i have right is like in this embedded wallet world which is okay so i am i there's some app i get an embedded let's just call it farcaster maybe or i don't know
yeah i think i think that's a really good term for what it's worth because that's exactly what's happening in warpcast the reason you have to sync back to your phone when you log in on on on the web is because the phone is actually holding keys that are taking actions on your behalf so it does imply that you trust warpcast not to sign random casts for you but only to sign the ones that you actually meant to post but that's exactly the world in this case of an embedded wallet which is the wallet is sitting within the warpcast app itself which is why you're not having to sidle back to you know metamask every time you wanna post a new cast or like someone's content
but then yeah so i guess that's the question is where do the keys then like so i don't have the keys like because i just remember my first time of like getting my first wallet was the first thing where here are your keys
yeah
put it on a piece of paper and go store it in a safe and never show anyone those keys i used to get parent like i didn't even like that i could see them again on my phone because i was like where is that where are those keys living and is it on the you know so and unlike a password password where like oh my password gets leaked and there's a little bit of time for some recourse i can change my i can change my password and i have some sort of insurance that someone's you know like the if my keys get lost very bad things can happen very quickly so kind of in in the world of embedded wallets where are the keys stored and do you does privy have have access to them gun to head aka or you know or federal subpoena in hand what happens to a good question
it's a great question so so two answers 1st basically there are multiple purveyors of embedded wallets out there different stocks get used i'll talk about ours we basically use a technology called premier secret sharing through split keys so the idea is we wanna give you some of the flexibility that you have with say a password but ultimately the keys need to be able to interact with our on chain systems so when you sign up the product with say your orbcast login we will generate keys on your device on your mobile phone and we will immediately split them into multiple shares 2 of which have to be recombined in order to do anything basically previous handling 1 share on your behalf one of them is on your device and one of them is used in case you lose your device to recover your keys basically as soon as you have 2 shares you can get the key back and you can split it again and so that gives you some flexibility for example if you lose your device we can use the other 2 shares recombine create a new key and then split it again so you have a new fresh device share it's kinda like you forgot your password to reset it because we're not handling the keys directly we're handling key shares so that's how basically we build a system whereby we are doing this sort of cryptographic orchestration for you we're helping you manage these these key shares but we actually never have access to the keys themselves nor does the developer using privy so dracula actually uses privy dracula can't feed any of your keys nor can we gun to the head and we put a lot of systems in place to do it and then you'll see on some applications the user is asked to set a password and that is basically the subpoena proofing which is to say that creates entropy whereby even if privy changed all of its architecture under the hood privy would not be able to recuperate the actual sort of cryptographic secrets that that we're helping the user sort of manage and here it really depends on threat models so again i'll shout out to our blog these are ultimately questions we're explaining this is my fear my fear is a government agent goes to privy or my fear is i have someone sitting in my browser trying to sniff every packet i'm sending across to understand what i'm doing depending on threat model there are different responses and i think our take has been the wallet has to be modular enough to account for a given user and for a given application's threat model
that's great
i yeah i love like i love that answer i'm gonna go listen to this recording later in slow motion with a few blog posts as well no henry but great because also people will listen too and they'll also dig in so i i thought that was really good
that's super helpful to me that to to get a better understanding myself so that was yeah
that was really helpful my fear is listen i think there's this is not my i'm like super high level understand it and my fear i think always is listen there's like kind of all the the bad actors out there and you obviously protect against them but i'm always just worried about the just like kind of the internal operations and i've seen this of like the the well intentioned developer in in companies who have access to information and their deep you know just whatever what can they do even in the course of a day so i just i my my memory is i just there's a famous twitter one where someone's debugging something and listen you can say everything's encrypted at you know everything's encrypted everywhere no one has access to everything but at some point the the fact that i can see a password on my device and it's encrypted somewhere means there's some decryption happening somewhere and so i just remember it and there was a case of twitter i think it was where developer took passwords which are encrypted everywhere you shouldn't be able to see them the code decrypt it right and then set and wrote it to a log file you know c drive log yeah
yeah yeah for sure
and then you've got plain text passwords which you should never have so oops you know like well intentioned trust us but i'm like so just in the world of crypto and kind of my background i'm always thinking of like how do i know that doesn't happen anyway so
yeah it's a really good question i i can answer it if you'd like yeah
and you can try i won't i i'm telling you but too deep even when you're talking about the splitting of the parts and i've kind of understood conceptually but go ahead and you can answer and then i'll have to listen back in slow mo
i think it's no but i think these are these are really deep questions and unfortunately all i've got are are unnervingly nuanced answers which is you know frankly i think you're shit out of luck because trust is and this is a little bit anathema to say in this space part of the fabric of any use of using any system and so there's a there's a paper i really love called untrusting trust and it was an acceptance speech for a turing award from one of the folks who i think invented unix ken thompson and in it he he kind of describes this how do you know what a program is doing well you read its source code but how do you know that the source code is actually the source code to the program well you read how the compiler works but someone can bootstrap the compiler to insert bugs he basically gets to an argument which is at the end of the day unless you're smelting your own metal and making your own chips there is a root of trust somewhere you're trusting nvidia that the chip isn't leaking your data you're trusting apple that there's not a key logger somewhere in there and you're trusting metamask that they're not sending your keys to some server somewhere and actually recording them there's a lot of deep technical answers like you know trusted execution enclaves have attestation systems where the client can attest to what the server is doing and all of that's great but no matter how you dig if you're looking for a root of trust you will find 1 again unless you're smelting your own chips and writing your own software which no one is i would check that if we did that is part of the problem which is you then need to reinvent the wheel whenever you're building something which means we never build anything new i think part of our starting principle with privy has been we are not here to tell users what to do and we are not here to tell them what is right we have our own frame for this is the appropriate floor for a security and custody perspective that we will not go below because we believe it puts users' assets at risk and we believe it puts developers at risk from a custody standpoint we are self custodial secure system from there we have spent an enormous amount of time building for example wallet connectors so that you can come in with your metamask if you don't feel comfortable using an embedded wallet i think our take has been in order for this space to grow it needs to be more inclusive of people who want to try to do things in different ways for some people logging in with warpcast and having a wallet generated behind the scenes is great and for others it won't be kosher and that's completely fine we just wanna support basically users so they can access on chain systems in a secure way but we also understand that not all users are alike and i don't think we should try and force them to be so i think this sort of i i i don't know that i could say you know unless you're using a ledger you're not a real og because it really depends on what you're trying to do
i love that's a great answer that's a really really great answer so i actually went and the
the trust thing just kind of reminded me of right like we have the the the whole self self sovereignty value which if you take it to the extreme means you don't trust anyone and which is fine and then you're your own fire department your own playstation your own bank your own you know and that works for some people but it's not the world for me
i've been saying this for years that the true currency of web 3 is trust that's it trust is the true currency of web 3 and you so you have to figure out who to trust and who to trust with what otherwise there's always these potholes and you have to figure out what level of trust you're willing to give as well
so and then there's obviously tool like things like open source right like i don't actually read open source libraries but i have this trust that there's an open source community and enough voices enough developers yeah that when i see something is like rainbow is if rainbow wallet is open source is it henry
i'm not sure
i think it's a great question i don't know the answer to this
farcaster protocol is you could just use that as an example
okay but it's like yeah so it is i will trust open source more likely it doesn't mean there's not you can attack open source and vulnerabilities but things like that to think about but
no and and i think that's maybe one thing that i have to be careful about in in the way i phrase things it's it it kind of seems like a nihilistic argument which to say there is no process it doesn't matter and and that's not actually true like the reality is there there's it's it's extraordinarily complicated from a technical standpoint to prove that software is actually running the open source thing that you thought it was and this is where blockchain by the way fix this blockchain actually do fix this because you could prove that the smart contract you're connecting to is doing that exact thing but even if say the rainbow wallet extension code was open sourced it's not super easy to prove that the thing that's running in my browser corresponds to that code that you're seeing at github nonetheless i think open source for example is a magnificent way of actually building trust and more importantly of securing systems we've open sourced for example the entire cryptographic library that does the key splitting there's a lot more we could open source and and and and and that we will but i think i don't mean to say because there are attack vectors on anything trust in itself is meaningless i think there is a lot of ways for companies to actually build and earn their users' trust by being transparent about the limitations of the system and by being as open as they can be about how the system actually works so other people can dig in and poke holes so i i think you're completely right
yeah and there's something and i've been reading read write own but there's something chris dixon talks about of like the ethereum and blockchain that becomes like the software becomes the computer and you don't have that separation of kind of code over here running it over here and it's kind of all in one so kinda moving in that right direction
i wanna keep really conscious of time
because i think that we've only been for
another 5 minutes or so so i'm and and my head hurts too no but this has been awesome
like this has
been such yeah no no this is so good i'm we're gonna be i'm gonna be listening back to this again myself and adrian has has homework to do she's gonna go read the blog but it was but it the i mean it's really it's i can't say that enough like it's really great blog it really helps you get a better understanding of not only the way privy works but some other aspects of blockchain in general and and sort of that that layer but adrianne usually has some amazing fun little questions that we'd like to end with so i won't we gotta do that before we before we wrap so yeah lightning round what you got what you got lightning round here we go
alright henry get nervous we get we get super personal in the lightning round alright so gm farcaster is a show about farcaster we all meet on a social network so my first question to everyone is when did you make your first internet friend
this should really start prepping people for this question
that's a great question no sorry i i i i probably the honest answer is i was i was very reluctant to join facebook for a long time i suspect it was probably it predates facebook and it's probably aim so it must have been somewhere in line like 2003 2004 and and probably in some some some janky chat at the bottom of aol i you know this is a this is a long lost friend at this point so i can't say it's run it's run much deeper but but but the the friends i still have that i made online that was probably in college and and folks that i've now met in person but that started as as as people i met online
by the way my i met my first in like 2019 so no so it doesn't mean i had you know like literally like someone i met on the internet that i became friends with so i'm late and then it was so good i came you know i'm all in now now i do nothing but internet
now we only make internet friends and we yeah don't care for those people in irl like no we just we all have to be here now in the here
what is your favorite channel
i think i've a i've a soft spot for for probably tabletop games i'm i'm butchering the channel name now but i think it's tabletop games tabletop tabletop thank you
shout out
shout out
i speak nerds there we go love that i mean i think there's gonna be a farcon tabletop side event by the way
do you know i speak nerd let's go yeah alright at eatdenver organized the whole tabletop arena in the basement of eatdenver did you know that happened
no idea i i i stinkfully did not know because i would have lived there
missed it yeah i i missed it but i heard it was really great it was
i went in the afternoon and it was like the most relaxing reprieve from the chaos of upstairs it was super cool okay what's your favorite game
oh good question
that's a great question there's a game called jaipur that's a 2 person game that's very very good it's about trading that will be my answer today
i have one other question do you play set elizabeth catan
i do but i haven't gone to like cult level like fanaticism i think in some way other people do so i think it's a good game i i see that
work that'll be on chain so very soon
oh i didn't know that do you play bonanza
no i've never heard of bonanza
okay well i play i learned it at eatdenver and i just ordered it on amazon so i can play it at home shout out thanks who's definitely not a cheater
do you have you seen any interesting frames recently favorite frame you've seen
oh man so i actually when frames when frames came to i put out a a a bounty cast
to to basically give a bounty to my 3 favorite frames based on completely nothing but my own taste which is to say arbitrary taste and i've been extraordinarily delinquent because i was supposed to pay this out on feb 29th and it is now march 15th so you reminded me that i will do it today but
bounty coming bounty bounty
linda will get out yeah linda will get out yeah linda will get out you and and if you want people to trust you you gotta pay those bounties
no no i don't remember this is
this is entirely on me i've i've i've been i've been consumed by by other things but it's it's it's no excuse my favorite recent frame that i saw and this is the one that comes to mind was from jacob at zuora and it was about 4844 and it was like 7 or 8 frame frame so to speak where you had a globe with words around it and by clicking the right button the globe would spin and so it was a little bit like stop motion it was a really nice interaction actually tapping it to see the globe spin
nice i saw that one
check that i mentioned that one
yeah i think you could if i remember correctly
are you a morning person or night owl
i am a night owl as as evidenced by my likeness
concert or sporting event
can i say neither like tabletop game at home
yeah this is the
dan answer this is the
dan ryar answer who went can i say books
yeah and then this is where i call people nerds
but that's we love tables nerds i'm gonna i'm sorry but i am
i love all the nerds
i mean we love the nerds
we love we are the nerds if you were to write a book what would it be about
good question i mean my wildest dreams would be an amazing work of fiction about something completely esoteric today it would probably be about like trust models and wallets so very much what we were talking about
i like your background by the way my favorite fiction is lonesome dove and your back your virtual background today is giving very western lonesome dove vibes okay i'll just end with kiwi skin on or off how do you eat a kiwi
i'm i i scoop it up so kiwi skin skin on but i scoop it anybody who peels a kiwi must be a psychopath
there you have it
and on that that note i love it i love it on that note this has been amazing thank you so much henry for joining us today from privy make sure you go follow privy on warpcast follow henry at henry i think you're just at henry i believe and also check out the is there there's a privy channel as well i believe i think there is
there is
a pretty so go take
a look at that structure content he could have dreamed of and more
amazing and check out those that blog post there's also another one that's called purple frame purple frame which i thought was into the tune of purple rain that's pretty amazing as well that talks about frames so go check those out we'll have those in the show notes of today's show again apologies to our stream chat we're sorry we don't know what happened it wasn't our fault to blame brian but we love brian and we will see you again on monday for more of farcaster more gm farcaster 21 minutes minutes of farcaster news to start your day and one last shout out thank you to all our wow wow supporters who joined us on hypersub and our mole supporter and more coming with the clp next week more information on that but thank you all for jumping on so quickly it's been an amazing week and we'll be air dropping this episode to you very shortly so you'll see this in your wallet very soon and with that note everybody happy friday and bye bye