The Hub ep5 Tuesday November 26, 2024 with guest co-host @luciano

v mgm let's go welcome everyone to the fifth ever episode of the hub a developer focused farcaster podcast right here on the gm farcaster network today i am very excited to have special guest cohost very long time friend of mine community man builder just a overall great person luciano welcome to the hub

gm luciano first i was wondering if maybe you'd wanna give a introduction for yourself for for for those who are maybe just tuning in for the first time and then luciano has been in a lot of really cool events from defcon and other events the past couple of fall inter internationally so be curious to get your take on yes be curious to get your take on on some of those afterwards but but yeah if there's anything you'd wanna say just to kinda introduce yourself first

oh awesome okay we're definitely gonna get

could you tell me a little bit about some of the events or the top events you've been to this fall the past couple months and the second is this is kinda broad so taken in any direction you want but have there been any takeaways you know any projects that really caught your eye any mindsets or learnings that you're really walking away from from this with you know a a different mindset would just be curious what you think about that

hey luciano you still still with us okay seems like he's gonna join back in a second hope everybody's going well though i can show off some very light light links in the meantime though let let me get my my screen share up but i think luciano had a internet dropout and he's gonna join back with us so let me get my screen share up in the meantime because they have a lot to go over this week awesome so there is one thing actually we can take this time to go over while luciano is reconnecting as some folks who have joined the past couple of hubs episodes have known the format and you know similarly for a podcast like gm farcaster as well is we go over links you know show primarily a bunch of casts and then go through conversations of what's going on in that cast what's going on around it and and just following up from there and every week when i'm preparing for the show in particular i create all of these show notes and i thought that it would be really cool to have one place where i can organize these links show the links during a live show but then in the future the part i have to edit a little bit is making the links better format it's that we can just copy paste it and that is the description show notes that can go on zuora spotify rss all of that sort of stuff so as a very simple v one that i made with ai in thirty or forty five minutes last night i have this up you can actually go and check it out if you want for yourself it's go-notes.vercel.app unprotected but don't go too crazy and the way it works is you just add a url like i can add my personal website for example dylanstack.com you have to make sure it's the actual like url though otherwise it will i think give you an error yeah so just like add the https for now you add the url and then here at the bottom you know it's an item and i just kinda like click through links that's a cast we'll go over later and it can duplicate it if i want to and can have the share url then i can go paste it in and very easily like refer to it again so i think it's cool kinda like for for that use case it's fun to put that stuff together i also think it's really cool to be able to have an idea and put something really together like that and here we go and luciano's back can you can you hear me okay luciano

awesome yeah yeah yeah i was just taking a second to show over the show notes but i think we can we can very easily segue back to what you were talking about with with devcon quickly before we get back into the notes so good good to have you

that's awesome that's that's that's really cool and is there any is there any particular theme that you saw maybe there's not i mean there's a lot of events right there's a lot going on in crypto right now but was there anything kinda common between these different projects i mean maybe it was even just like the enthusiasm i know that these past couple months have been a very optimistic time for people in crypto with with global events with prices with tech getting better

definitely definitely agree there awesome cool so i think with that there are so many links that we can jump into with the link tool that i was just showing that we have created here there is one thing we obviously have to start with and that is frames v two frames v two have been in the works for a while the first draft was out last week but as of now there are a couple new exciting updates so there are frames v two docs there is a frames v two playground a demo repo and and tutorial and there is even this speed run video i wanna show all these at the same time from horse facts so if you are a developer very exciting times and you should totally get all in on this and maybe we can even do some live coding here in a second but the first thing i wanted to show is i wanted to see if we can like quickly speed speed run through this video here so going back a second barcaster frames v two the draft of the spec came out last week it is now here on github i can i can put the link in the show notes the main difference here is that they're treating everything as a mini app right like by mini app i mean it's this little website pop up and the mini app has different like context and entry points so for example do you click a button on the frame and that opens the mini app do you click a cast action do you click a frame on a direct cast so there are all these different points to get into the app one of the the newest differences though is that it feels more like a first class citizen app you can get this pop up that would say add yoink for quick warp cast access and then there would be some little home tab where you can go back into yoink and there's even going to be first party support if i can find it for notifications here we go so that if you have an app like luciano's kismicasa let's say there's a kismicasa mini app for applying to the next kismicasa you could get some sort of notification that says hey you're you're approved to the next event or whatever and then you click the little cell where the notification is and it takes you right back into the mini app so this very cool interactivity it's gonna make things faster smoother can be a very integrated experience so excited for what developers can build there and from last week where they put out this draft not only have they taken multiple rounds of feedback but they've actually built an a sample frame as well as a playground where similar to if you've used the the web playground here there is this this frames testers like i put in my website and it will show me that it's a proper frame and i can go and like test the frame everything here so something like this except on mobile and it's made specifically for testing the mini app let me see if there's a good video here from dan oh yeah awesome so right you have this little frame playground the mini app comes up and then you can go and test all the different actions in warpcast like a transaction from mobile wallet protocol closing the frame all all these different things you can now do inside of the mini app to trigger an action that will show up back inside of the client like warpcast so bringing it back to the cast here if you are a developer and you want to try these things out you wanna see what's the latest i would highly highly highly recommend checking out this cast from horsebacks which has the repo as well as this shortened up less than five minute video of how to get started he also even has a twenty plus minute video that he links to on youtube somewhere over here so again would highly recommend checking all of this out really cool time as a farcaster builder especially this isn't even like fully out or released yet so just awesome time to get in if you are looking to build this stuff right now

luciana what do you what do you think about frames v two or app frames have you have you looked at any of it had added something about any of it

what do you mean

think i'm thinking about it a lot more now also because i can tell you more offline but i i think i'm building something that can make very good use of this

like it's one of those things where like and i'll i'll actually bring this back up i wrote this article back in may called crypto super app and it basically said crypto doesn't need a super app because the interoperability is so good like here the future lies in like ever increasing interoperability where specialized tools offer more like tailored experiences and it's very easy to get caught up in the hype around frames v two or like all the new stuff that is happening but i kinda still think we're gonna be in a world like this where the majority of use cases aren't fully gonna be solved in the feed like maybe this is a bad analogy to take but i was thinking about this the other day think about the web two context if does the if would the if there is an everything app in web two does it need to revolve around a social media feed like if you know if think about ios as an everything app i mean it's operating system but like think about all the affordances they make to to have apple apps like more prominently featured and easier to use the social graph is at the core of it but it's through contacts it's not through a social feed of activity and that doesn't necessarily mean that social can't be valuable for this but i'm not doing everything in my life on a social feed if that makes sense

and so even in crypto i don't think i'm gonna use every crypto app within the context of a social feed and there's sometimes where i wanna do something where the social feed isn't the start of that funnel the start of the funnel is directly to the app this is a a great step in the right direction but in terms of what you're saying like how much do you think about this i think if you're building on farcaster this is a great native way to enhance an experience with a a current audience like if you're if you're building fully native on farcaster and you're saying let me build a google form versus a a mini app you should build the mini app and maybe fall back to a google form but like build whatever is best for your farcaster experience if you're building overall in crypto or overall in tech i think there are many different entry points to think about so so that's what's still in the back of my mind in terms of like where this is all headed that's also like a larger i don't think that's just a crypto specific

yeah a little bit i mean got i gotta think about it a little bit more than than i should but it's a it's a tricky problem

i mean it's a step in the right direction and and how much do i think about it i think about it a lot but i don't i don't think it's a thing where for the majority of people on farcaster or builders this comes out and then all of a sudden there's a flood wave of every you know what i mean like for example

yeah well i think like for example last week yeah there were all these chats about like the decentralization of farcaster last week or like the the state of the developer ecosystem and there were these chats of oh well what if everything was just open source but even if if everything was open source like let's say workcast open source everything today which like they they definitely won't i don't think we're gonna see a cambrian explosion of farcaster clients and ideas out of nowhere doesn't mean that doesn't help no but yeah

no it's certainly it's certainly a good sign for farcaster totally i mean i mean they're they're doing the right stuff they're lean they're leaning into the right things this is exactly what they should be doing so

you know what's cool you know what's crazy which made me think like we're so close to a top signal right now what he's going on thread guy's

yeah

crazy right

i'm well the other thing this is a good segue because the the only other thing that that would make me think that we're as close to a to a top signal as possible is this joke here from from matthew

where he's he basically mocked up this idea that if you mention a ticker in a cast you would get a model like this which

way i think it's a

and this looks sick

well the sense i'm getting is that like

no yeah totally not i mean that that's the whole that's why they're building all this infrastructure to like comply with the in app purchase and with token it's crazy i think dan and the team at workcast seem to be much more receptive to the meme coin mania this time around

i haven't even going on this thread yeah so this when a

it's crazy

so it's like not in a bad way but we're like we're like close to like the the furthest extent that i feel like they would take it like i feel like

it probably won't happen at this point but if they were to do a feature like this then all bets would be off the table for me like you know what i mean they might as well just like make a token or like a network at that point

yeah it also seems like

yeah

i mean maybe this is speculation but it seems like there's a play playbook with certain coinbase alums to like make sure that you time the tokenization really well just just because they like learn from how how tricky the legal battle can be

the

yeah i also don't know what's the like well think about it this way right now let's say a frame like i can buy tokens inside of a frame right like that that exists that that does exist

and and that frame can load up a transaction that is then sent to rainbow or coinbase wallet and i think i think that is how you can technically get around it like if this mock up were real the buy button could load rainbow maybe i i don't know i just like they're not gonna do it

we'll see

i also wonder the same the same way where like the the whole thing about frames v two is that it has this entire api for like and not even like not even api they have a a package like let's see if we can pull it

frame i guess i call that yeah farcaster frame sdk so and side note this is gonna like to me i think this is gonna maybe make some of the frame like tools less useful like other pack like not in a bad way but you're like farcaster has a package you know what i mean and it has it has all these really cool apis you can call as a developer so like transaction for example but then also it can it can get the location of a user it can get the like the context of who they are it can open a url take you to a particular page within warpcast so i almost wonder along those lines because you were saying oh well like if warpcast does it it's very blatant

or i wonder what kind of design space they could give developers to customize the bottom

like like do the bottom sheet model yeah specifically you know

a little bit well i mean frames already work in this modal bottom sheet thingy

can make it like a 50% web view or like a 30%

yeah

yeah well you have to make the frame like ridiculously fast

buy this token it takes me to the next page

i i have no clue i would i would assume that you would connect to your local bank account whatever and they would do the currency conversion yeah

i think that's how it works

that'd be crazy i mean yeah there's a whole economy for all that stuff tokens for the community notes for yeah for the verifications yeah

yeah i mean it's definitely something to keep an eye on yeah i i think from from the twitter side no clue i would be so soft if they're making more revenue than they were in the past i think they're just like highlighting the like the the program more and i think with farcaster you know who knows how far they will take it we don't wanna certainly know right now like do do your own investment research all all that sort of good stuff but again it seemed like they're leaning more into this moment and and the thing i like about it is they're leaning more into the moment just from a genuine curiosity of where people are spending their time like he was able to see for example oh people are using clankr like they wanna see stuff about their token there's this really interesting overlap so i don't think dan keeps teasing some cool feature they make i don't think they're gonna like become like interface and do copy trading or have a transactions tab or anything like that but their their their fingers are on the pulse of like where users are spending time especially in crypto and on mobile where in both it's like so scarce so they're gonna push for what drives the most usage ultimately i yeah

yeah awesome alright let's move on let's move on to the next one here the next one i think we skipped over a couple actually yeah okay so one is hale how i will i will learn how to say your name hale hale if you have a proper phonetic pronunciation that that you drop drop drop in the chat but hale may makes recaptor which is an awesome mobile and web client which i use a lot has very cool mini apps and made this mini app to view clanker tokens and create one one of the coolest things i think is if i'm not mistaken both bounty caster and clanker don't have official apis but the api is just talking to the bot like you know i'm sure when you hit create token here it just it's creating that cast or whatever for you so back to the point where we're just making great to follow where users are spending time and make something along those lines and also separately very cool that the api or the means of communication here is just you know talking with the bot i think that can open up a lot of really cool doors or like using that bot like using whatever permissions are tied to the bot account as the levels of verification as you like request more apis

so definitely some very cool stuff there wanted to wanted to shout this out from hal and then in the meantime there was something else i wanted to bring up from proxy studio and i can i'll take a second to read this out loud i thought this was very very cool or maybe i can't read the whole thing it's kinda kinda well i'll i'll get through some of it speculative token markets have always been crypto's killer consumer product programmable liquid markets plus tokenization equals financialization of consumer products and experiences online or you could just admit that people enjoy when number goes up and they get to make their friends laugh either way we're all accelerators now ai plus crypto market will continue to shape he said there's like eight o's in there so i had to had to try and sound it out continue to shape how people chill earn and play online whether social markets alienate or sustain communities is the most obvious problem for us to solve that isn't so abstract to be meaningless for 99% of people funniest outcome wins which happens to be very aligned with my founder need to post good thesis related he's i don't even know what percent this is a million bajillion percent on gulf b 47 the 2 or $3.10 up coin however you say that the the crazier takeaway here is clinker revenue from swap fees since launch on 11/00/2008 about two three weeks ago is a meaningful $3,400,000 and well is everything on farcaster or in crypto about how much you make even though it's a hyper financialized space i don't think it is you know there's great products etcetera but the fact that the fact that this can be made and so much was generated in such a short amount of time i think is inspiring to all of us you see that and you're like oh shoot like what you know what what's the percentage that you get in on some small stuff like that and it's overall just really cool really really impressive show of the times for how much more there is to build here and how much you can do with these tools on an open protocol where you're not asking for permission to build stuff and think about how quickly the meta has changed even this weekend or the past couple of days i've been seeing some friends from home for thanksgiving i'm still checking the timeline a a solid amount but i feel like i'm so like left out or behind now because of how much has happened just in the past couple of days so if anything i think this just comes to show how quick the meta is changing and and how quickly people are able to make things that have real meaning i mean now people on twitter are like posting constantly about farcaster they're saying that it's it's base meme coin season all that all that sort of stuff

oh no i i was gonna say one really small thing was that i'll out myself here and i casted something on super anon but i wouldn't i wouldn't say that i would show it if i didn't actually mean what i casted because i think there's like a a double edged sword here but it's also just like funny in how the world works but you know everyone runs back to the timeline when it's time to show their bags you know that's yeah that's funny there's so many people and i saw oh they haven't casted in a year they haven't casted in three months and they're immediately back to create a token with clanker to show it off that was a good one

that was me i don't let the people know right i think i think like with any sort of fad or trend or whatever like it's not unlike people to wanna be on it right like when ai comes out i don't think you can you have to call yourself a bandwagon and be excited about ai and wanna build on it but i think there is a certain point where like you can you can see it and especially if you're someone who is participating in a financial economy and this isn't an investment advice again this is just like my own personal opinion i do think there is something to be said for the people who are staying in the community versus this kinda like one time fleece sort of thing this isn't just about tokens right this can be you don't show up on farcaster for months

you don't talk on farcaster for months or a year and then you show up at farcon claiming to be some farcaster og or whatever like none of this has to be about exclusivity none of it has to be about showing off some laundry list of i've done a bajillion things on farcaster but i do think there are certain times where you can tell folks who are like really just trying to get in on the meta and as long as they're not doing it in a bad way and they're trying to stay in the community instead of like show things off then i think it's kinda like o okay to engage with them or that's my personal rule of thumb

but well

yeah but if someone hasn't spent time on farcaster in months or a year and then they're acting all like like douchey about it almost and

that that kinda like rubs me the wrong way but also markets are are open so people people decide with their money

but i thought i thought that was just funny and and interesting and you should check out super or non or noncast

yeah totally and we're all for new new regenerative tool regenerative tools so i'm a i'm a % right there with you

depends what they're programmed to do

what what's the

where where that where that gets in the future is crazy i think right now it's not like sophisticated enough for that but in the future sure if it's just like extremely sophisticated ai that can think for itself and it has its money i don't think it's always going to be trying to act just in the favor of a of a human at a certain point it's gonna be like i'm an ai what can i do sort of thing but that could be a a long that could be a long ai doomerism talk that we that we have for hours so i i i think we're a little further away from that

exactly that's why they always say build for the next billion users that aren't here yet

exactly exactly we're working on it working on it awesome alright i think we have a couple more links to get through here one alright can't miss this is last week's biweekly farcaster developer call it'll take a couple minutes to get through this i mean the majority of it was appframes honestly and we already went through appframes here so i can kinda just skim through so yeah the priorities the the the two top things were priorities going into 02/2025 and then appframes so they're working on social crypto and protocol this is like how merkel i think pretty sure it's 14 people this is how they bucket themselves so social is performance channels onboarding feed direct cast you know things that actually impact the social experience of warpcast and the network at large crypto so frames v two and transaction ux so kind of more on the social end but but obviously like actually using cryptos to make those social experiences happen and then on the protocol sign in with farcaster or snapchain i think snapchain is the main update there although there is a new farcaster connect fip we can go over as well so as i said the main i'll i'll just speed through and then we can go over highlights afterwards but the main updates for frames v two you know it's a full stream full screen app there is a new transaction flow and they have these new context that make them feel less ephemeral you can add the the frame app to your home page you can open it from a cast action a frame you can open it from from all these different places and you know as we had alluded to now there is this typescript package i can open up the chat here but i was asking you know is there gonna be an sdk and api there is this full on typescript package so you can have the package do stuff like sdk dot actions dot transaction or whatever and then you throw in the abi or the arguments and it will load up the little transaction model inside of a client so looks very cool to use you should definitely go check that out the the timeline or the the spec has changed a little bit there is now this playground out they're talking about it seems like the next steps are they're letting folks use the playground and maybe building some internal use of this and hopefully we'll get this out next week or so hopefully if you are looking to to be a partner or build something special you should reach out to the warpcast team but also that playground is up so there's already a bunch that you can start building on top of in terms of social there was a little bit more spam and so they are retraining their spam ml model to try and get some new results there they're also working on improving large media uploads especially for the new iphone there seems to be some issue with large video files taking up more space or sometimes taking minutes to upload but it seems like there has been a new fix since this dev call and then on the protocol side they're trying to get a functional alpha for the new snapchain by december if you wanna follow along there's this open source snapchain v zero repo here where they are building out a kind of initial version in rust and then for signing with farcaster farcaster connect there is this fip that was opened last week to make it easier for signing with farcaster to work on a bunch of different wallets using this canonicalconnect.farcaster.xyzrelay link to be honest this is an fip i need to dig into a little bit more but i think overall very exciting work both to make the new social crypto features work as well as make it easier to do stuff across clients in the future like one of the things that was brought up was if sign in with farcast can be better expanded then you can have multiple different clients those clients can have embedded wallets on a per client basis and then using this transaction spec that is part of the new frames model every client can very easily render transactions from from these app frames and it can actually make sense to have these disparate embedded wallets that can do things like auth and transactions without relying on like one centralized wallet or authorizer signer app key for that so some some very cool stuff there again the main focus was frames but just wanted to to go through luciano did anything catch your mind there that i should maybe go back to or you think we're all good

appreciate that awesome okay cool i think we have a couple more then the next one okay yep so the same diagram helpful overview of merkel's priorities

two other very good ones are from sloke who has very quickly made himself like a very legendary builder on farcaster for building things with good speed super high impact like staying low to the ground like yeah huge code kudos to him doing really cool stuff so latest with a noncast is reveals you can reveal yourself as the author of an anonymous post which would have been cool for me to do that post through a noncast and not super anon so i could actually reveal myself here as the as the one who made it but i think this was really cool they're adding a bunch more stuff like they're they're changing the requirements to post on and on and if you wanna check it out all the code is open source here and they are adding a bunch of stuff even like two hours ago they're almost at a hundred commits in like two weeks and a hundred stars which is crazy so would would highly recommend checking it out

yeah i think the thing i think it's one of those things where it's so exciting but then you take the time to think about well what would i build on top of that and nothing really comes to mind at first for me i think frames are a little different but z k is like

it's so early for z k but i think particularly with something like a noncast like if we're thinking about ai agents right we can make a whole bunch of different agents there's cool stuff to explore and i guess there certainly is within z k but it feels like when you're building and maybe i'm wrong i feel like when you're building an app in z k you have to really think about what's like the social effect of the app or what's like the social game or feedback that's tying back into the app and with this it's obviously the fact that things are anonymous and there's this token bound to it but if i were to build something else on z k like does it essentially have to be around the premise that the exciting thing is revealing or hiding an identity again that doesn't mean it's not cool it's super cool but like i was thinking in terms of if there's something that i would wanna build and and yeah maybe there's not something that comes to mind for me and other people are are still building stuff and if so totally kudos to them i'm not saying there isn't anything interesting at all

yeah it's nice awesome

yeah cool alright there is another one i wanted to bring up this one i actually just saw so let's add it to our show links here nice this one here from privy okay maybe our maybe our link thing here isn't doing the best because it has to pull it from x that's okay but privy added a native apple pay funding option which i think is very slick i don't actually know who seems like coinbase and moonpay are the integrations but let's see in the video here like it looks pretty sleek you hit mint pay with card waiting to hear from coinbase i guess they have the apple pay flow and then it just pops up that looks very smooth so cool from privy i mean to be honest i haven't really seen many bundled examples like that of of apple pay from a provider so that's really cool and if you're trying to build on a you know if you're trying to make an apple pay like app that can get around some of this app store stuff you should you should check that out especially if you're already using gravi which i'm sure a lot of you already are

yeah awesome alright the last one that we have then is kind of related the fip for forecaster connect so it seems like it's a new revision of the spec and the two main updates for that the user data type is easier to look up or makes it easier to look up the app i guess because an app like every signer has an app fid so it's like if i made my signer with warpcast there's a you know fid attached to know the account that the signer was created from and the second update is yeah you have this connect.farcaster.xyz for clients tbd on like how that is actually used i wonder how it's gonna actually make it easier permissionlessly for all these other clients but i really like the idea there

yeah awesome

oh test in pro okay what do you want what do you want me to bring up

hello the show notes

cool let me get that on a new window and then we have a couple minutes where i can show that

show notes

yeah sure something crazy but

share a new screen

okay give me one sec

oh very cool you know i gotta move this over

okay

alright you see my screen

awesome okay cool let's do this for a couple of minutes and then i think i have three four minutes

i guess it already saved my state but yeah like you put in a land click kismetcasa.xyz paid ad shows up you know oh sorry everyone my bad very cool video i just wanna check it out awesome video

farcaster.xyz that's as simple as it is you know and then you get a share link here and then with the share link you can go back and it has all your stuff saved so the idea would be like yeah if you have a show like for this show you know i can have a particular link i can like send it to the guests the next part is as i was mentioning earlier we do show notes where like in the description for the podcast it shows all the links we went over so i wanna add some button here where i can like have it generate show notes where it's like you know little bullet points essentially with the link under it but that's how simple it is i mean yeah i was just really building this with ai last night in terms of how it's set up here so we just have like links like an array of links you know every link has an id random id it has a url a title and original title i made this very simple api route that gets the title so like for any link it will get all the html and it will pull the title so like i you know i write an article it can show the the title of the article anytime that i add an item it's just creating a new object for the item it's getting the title from the url and then it's adding it to this list here and we have this use effect and the use effect is essentially making sure that the url up here always has all the state so like when i duplicate here then the url is gonna change to make sure that it it has this new data so like all the data lives in the url so it's like unique when i send it out but that's pretty simple like everything other than that api basically just lives here and then if you're familiar with it i use god cnui which is like very it's kinda like the the bootstrap of today and was able to put in some simple components like you know the sidebar the drawer cards all that kind of stuff but yeah that's it

yeah we can use it for anything i mean even other other podcasts can use it which would be cool so see what kind of updates i can get there awesome cool i think we're i think we're almost out of time here but really appreciate you being on with us luciano and before we wrap is there anything that you would want to to close us off with

awesome also in the comments someone said brb making cortex clankers so i gotta i gotta keep my eyes out it's not too rich yeah yeah make sure i keep myself safe crazy times those i i would say to everyone build and and continue building with the enthusiasm that you have but don't go too buck wild right there are still laws there's still

unwritten codes and just like keeping keeping everything safe within the space of folks who are trying to help each other on farcaster and then i would also say if you are here in the states and you celebrate have a awesome thanksgiving or just have great time with your family and we will see you back here next tuesday at 10am eastern for the sixth episode of the hub hopefully with some more apps to show you

and hopefully we will be able to stream this in a frame one day yes well thank you again luciano really appreciate it thanks

yes thank you everyone have an amazing rest of your morning afternoon or evening