gm farcaster it is tuesday may 28th and you are here with nanaesh prop and adrian and a few friends to help us digest and understand new decentralized channels i have with us jtdi john johnny mac aka nonlinear and alex j comeaux from airstack i have to say your full name including the middle initial it just doesn't no
we took out the middle initial last week
yep it's officially me
it's every okay
it's alex
it's alex como alright now i have to take out the i'm i'm just got trained i just got trained and now i gotta retrain myself so we recently had a change to channels and we're gonna talk through what that means and one of the i saw a a cast that went out and adrian replied to it that i wanted to share real quick and that is this one from nixo who came back to her channel after having no idea what was going on and had no idea what to do so i no longer know how to moderate farcaster channels i'm trying to hide things in estaker with the new auto mod bot system but they don't seem to actually be hidden apologies for the current spam i need to figure out how this this new flow and adrian your reply was many such cases shout out ted nonlinear fear not people are mostly being patient understanding during this first change to channels channel hosting is going from moderation to curation nanush praful and i are going to cover the channel curation options on our show tuesday and here we are so john if you wanna start us off a little bit can you explain what has changed with channels and then what what are we doing now with all these different moderation tools and we'll just start there with first like what happened with channels what is decentralized channels and why the need for the change
so it's
our to you
yeah well the okay i think we're familiar with the old world we had trending and another feed and this was all moderable inside of forecast we had if you're a a cohost you could hide things and now what they've changed to is 2 feeds 1 recent that is everything and anything you cannot moderate it and another one called main if that's set with a moderator then if a moderator likes something from recent it'll show up there and if it doesn't it won't if moderation mode is off there's no moderator set then it'll be default priority mode in warp test so priority mode is people you follow will be prioritized in that feed and then after that power badges and and so on so that's the very high level the changes and i and i guess one other note that's maybe a little bit less known the main feed is actually sorted based on on likes it's kinda like the trending feed but in main even if you have moderation mode on so it's actually like weighted the sorting it's not chronological so i think very high level that's the changes
okay
there we
have it there we have it so if we turn moderation mode on so if we turn it off we have these two modes automatically if we turn moderation mode on what happens then what are our options and if we can talk through maybe both auto mod and air stack and then we'll throw it over to johnny to talk about sort of implementations of that that he's seen so if you can talk first about so we turn on mod we turn on moderation and what do we do john
so you turn on moderation and you go into your channel settings and you'll see a a moderation settings as long as you're using desktop and then you set a moderator fid or fid sorry and let's say you were gonna use automod you would set automod as the moderator and then you go into automod and set rules for things that you would prefer to be in the main feed so in automod's case you you would say here are all the things i don't want to show up in main everything else will be included by default and you can also because cohosts are gone with automod you can also set up a moderation team again so you could say i want my 3 cohosts back and all cohosts can use cast actions to manually also curate the feeds from recent and bring that back into main and a lot of other things but at high level you're setting a moderator fid and then setting up your configuration in automod
so i could maybe comment a little bit on like why it's like that as as like dan kind of mentioned in the in the notion doc that he circulated which is with channels going on chain there's a lot of things that you can't do so like up to this point like the way workcast is built or i should say like merkel is building is that they have you know the broadcaster protocol and then they have workcast which is the client and they're kinda using workcast as like this canary in the coal mine to see like okay what what is working and what is not working and then once they have high conviction on the answer to that question they'll codify what is working into the protocol and then now so like
past you know year they're like okay channels are working channels are a thing channels should go in the protocol okay but now we have to kinda untangle this like rat's nest of like when we say channel what exactly are we talking about because there's some things that are webcast specific and there's some things that when you think about how to like represent how to codify a channel on chain there's some things that you can't do and so hiding is one of those right boosting there's like all this work cast specific stuff that you i guess in theory could put in the protocol but it would make channels it would certainly make v one of the channels like much more complicated so the trade off that that they made which i personally think is the right trade off is they said we're gonna make channels like ultra simple like very very simple like design on chain so you do that and then everyone is like well what about what about all this stuff that i could do that i've been doing in warpcast and dan's answer is like use automod automod you can add cohosts you can hide stuff you can curate stuff you can have all this complex rule logic like go use automod and so like i guess just just some context on like why yeah these changes have occurred
and the and with you know i think the big one has been removing ban and hide has been you know from the native warp cast channel you can still do some of that and i understand from the moderation tools
you
can do all of it so yeah so so you basically have feature parity between what you could have previously done in work cast and what you can do in auto mod today and and then and how you do that and and this was this happened super fast which just i'm a like i mean i don't know i i i think they kinda just took a rip the band aid off approach which is whatever you can debate
except it wasn't a band aid it was like surgical wrap
yeah it it was like the stitches out yeah yeah yeah still
got it and it's like i
i yeah i did i think it's a fair criticism because that thursday i was up to like i was like up to like 3 in the morning that the previous wednesday like trying to get everything ready and then i
sleep that night
yeah neither did i and like everything broke
i was gonna say all of you all of you have been pretty much awake since then yeah
yeah so like thursday when it launched i was like you know everything everything just completely broke so like the the way the way that i figured this out and like that's expected huge credit to john john for doing this but the way that you perform these actions in warpcast using auto mod is with install is by installing cast actions so because i am the curator of the memes channel and i have specified auto mod as the moderator i can install auto mod cast actions and those cast actions are like hide curate cool down there's like 2 i think 2 more i think john you have like 5 you can speak to that but basically like this is how you configure automod cast actions and work cast today to get what was you previously got for free in work cast if that
makes
sense right and easy too because it was in the client it was
just there you didn't yeah
i just wanna ask a few things so johnny i appreciate kind of the context just because the reason we have all you guys here is because you're building this tooling right and that kinda how you talked about it was the everything was everything channel related before was merkle generated so right all easy now it's kind of and by the way we're not decentralized yet right this is kind of right i believe
that we have
to step on yeah so
not fully there but kind of how do we simplify simplify pair down only what goes in the protocol and then push all those other features out of merkle out of the protocol into third party ecosystem
just johnny when you were saying on chain i just wanna for my own it's not really on chain though right this like is it protocol hub
there's 2 so channels will exist they'll kinda have one one foot on hub and one foot on chain so there is an on chain representation of channels
okay gotcha
it's in terms of the footprint it's it's extremely small
like an fid type thing like just the identity of a channel or something
john can you speak to that
the proposal right now well so first of all this is phase 2 so right now there's nothing on chain but phase 2 of the proposal is to have channel id like a cid
okay
and and and so like what does that mean though like what is the is is it like
it's pointing back i was mhmm something
well the details are tbd but but i presume it'll be a cid with a c name so your channel id your channel name and then there'll be a host fid that's associated with that cid and then also a moderator fid so i think that'll be the minimal set of data that'll be on chain and
and then the casts that are children of that channel will be on hub yep so in some ways it it almost kinda reminds me of like dns records or something like that where it's like k just simple pointers and that that's what's on chain
yeah i think the design is really elegant like you you said it well but keeping the protocol as dumb as possible so it can scale and just having it with likes is really smart because the entire broadcaster ecosystem already understands likes all the data infrastructure providers everybody and you just reduce messages by a lot and then the other smart thing about it as well is you know more messages are gonna be spam than are gonna be good right so if you have a hide all of a sudden you need to mark you know probably 60 70% of messages at scale and that's a significant load whereas if you're just worrying about the good ones that's that's much more reasonable
okay that's what he means when he says hiding doesn't scale because he's gotten some pushback on that on the feed recently and he's saying because that's been i think the biggest challenge for channel hosts which popular channel hosts all of a sudden now you're seeing in the what's the what's the what's the feed on the right call not
main recent recent oh so sorry so no i i got that wrong it's it's recent and main is the curated one
okay so in the recent feed is now the fire hose and and people are missing the ability to hide and john i think that's the point you're saying and and i haven't understood that either of why like it doesn't scale it's because it requires an action that costs storage so
well it's just the majority of the market you're gonna wanna hide just as the network scales like we're only at what 40 k dau right now i can't remember the recent numbers and if if we're gonna get to like a1000000 or tens of millions dau we're we're gonna have way more spam like this is just the beginning
so this is like email so like the vast majority of emails that are sent in the 24 hour period are all like vast majority is spam
yeah
so it's really about filtering and curating right so more about focusing on how do we put the good stuff stuff upfront and more visible where the spam or whatever becomes a little less visible and less relevant where you're not having to go through and hide all of them but you can elevate and that's what i'm understanding some of these tools will do as well is that you can set the rule for anyone who holds this particular token they're immediately get alike and move into the main feed yes correct
yeah that's right that's where hypersub kinda comes in which is you can you know well what i'm experimenting with is you can pay to have that happen which i will say
right
is not a good idea on its own
okay alright so let's actually i wanna do 2 things 1st let me shift really quick to alex and then i wanna come back to johnny to explain that flow and how that's working for what you did in memes but first let me jump back really quick to air stack because air stack has some tools also so what is air stack doing for tools how is it different from automata are they basically two options of a similar
tool i think it's kind of like 2 different options you know the flow to get into moderating your channel with airstack is very similar in terms of you know going to your channel adding our not a bot which is just another not a kind of play on words then you go to air stack make sure you log in with your wallet and in you know you look up your f name or your forecaster name and you can see your channel ownership and once you get in there it's kind of this no code almost like zapier feeling place where you can just go in and add like you know rules as you go so it could be any or all or say like you have to have a certain you have to have a power badge or we prefer social capital ranking as like a baseline to cast in the main channel but then maybe you wanna be more specific and you can add in like poap ownership and token ownership and balance you know greater than less than rules and there's like a ton of different options in there so yeah i think it's about you know offering all these folks that are curating and engaging their communities you know a variety of different tools and and you know help them find what fits best
so it's like a lot of different ways to elevate sort of hopefully better content where you're starting to curate and show that rather than worrying about how do i hide all this other stuff it's like how do i make sure i see the good things so again which i think is a good approach so johnny can you talk through memes and what you had set up previously in the channel and then how you sort of pivoted to what you're doing now and how that's working
yeah so i was reading this doc and i was like okay this is coming and so and i
i was reading the same doc and going this is coming and i have no idea what to do
yeah and so the doc said i think dance is something like later this summer or something we're gonna do decentralized channels and then there's like something about phases and i was like okay cool there's like plenty of time and then last week he was like phase 1 thursday and i was like oh fuck and then i was like this is gonna like no one is tracking what's happening here like this is gonna surprise everybody and then i'm like why are they doing this and then i was like oh it's because there's no clean way to do it like you you have to rip the bandaid off so i was like okay fine so i'm like i wanna be i've been bullish on channels since the first channels you you know like since the nba channel purple the first experiments of channels i was like oh my god this is this is the thing i mean i remember at farcon 1 people were telling dan like channels channels it's gonna be big and so and i've looked at as
as being like to me is like the there's so much to learn that was a channel you know and it's a channel that created its own culture its own token there are people who made 1,000,000 of dollars you know all that happened from within a channel so to me like that is the canary in in the channel coal mine like like i think that thousands of channels can do what did and so like i'm very i think this is just a huge design space and i think the only way that we're going to find out is if we fuck around and so that's what i'm trying to do with the memes channel and so i think revenue in particular recurring revenue is an important property of like sustainable channels and so obviously that's what you know we're building with hyper sub is this kind of a general primitive and so more
than that though you had something set up in channels already like you had to pay warps
right i made a test oh
or the no just the channel pass you sort of do yeah with the
channel pass yeah yeah yeah so yeah that was something that they actually asked to experiment with yeah dan was like we're gonna do this channel pass thing to try to cut down on spam and it was it's all in warps like will you do this for memes i was like okay what what what should it be like okay why don't you try a 100 warps it's a buck okay
now he's a warps millionaire
yeah i am
i am a trillionaire
yeah i i gotta say i have if warps ever have an off ramp i'm i'm retired none i have so many goddamn warps no but the
it's it's interesting to think about how history would have changed if warps were in erc 20
yes you
know freed from that maybe that's a topic for another time yeah
i think about this yeah
often i'm sure you do
yeah very different
yeah yeah it would be
so he's doing warps to d gen calculations at night oh my god for used to men yeah
so then they're like okay spam is really bad why don't you why don't you increase the price to 300 warps like okay so i did that and it it basically didn't matter like i i and i think the i think the calculation here and this is especially true when had a multiplier for posting in memes where people are like wait a minute like 300 works is $3 but the channel has 200,000 something followers so like well i pay 300 you know $3 to get distribution and even if you say that dau is 20,000 it's is that worth $3 like yes it's worth $3 so it didn't really like do much you know like it it didn't like it didn't really cut down on spam but i still think that there's like the reason why when they with phase 1 of decentralized channels rolling out why i didn't just abandon it completely is because despite warpcasting like okay we're done with channel passes i was like i wanna keep playing with this idea and so the reason why is because one of the things that i'd wanted to do with warps once i think once i had more than like a couple thousand i was like how do i give these back to people like the the the that's
like 110 at a time
yeah yeah and it was like oh we can only tip 10 i'm like 10 like i wanna tip like a1000 you know and there's
a lot of hosts with this problem by the way design was the same yeah mhmm a lot of channel hosts with 100 of 1000 of warps
yeah you have all these warps just like funneling into literally one person
the only idea i had was spend as a service so like if you want a new channel i'll buy it because i have warps from the forecaster channel and i was like i'll buy you a channel and you can give me a disc like for a cheaper or oh you wanna mint this i'll mint it and send it to you i wasn't doing this but
it's a total hack
you can think of it's a yeah
yeah total hack like you you so i think that there's this desire for hosts to i think many hosts recognize okay wait it's my channel i started it and i'm the most active and i curate it and moderate it however it wouldn't be what it is without all the people who contribute to it every day and so whatever source of revenue is coming in to this really should be distributed amongst us i think that's like a commonly felt view but there's no way to do it and so i'm like how can i put these lego blocks together with memes to make this happen and so i'm like okay automod is a lego block like paybot and rounds are lego blocks hypersub is a lego block for recurring revenue and so that was the idea okay i'm gonna create a memes channel pass channel subscription it's 0042069 eth per year it's about 60 bucks
for the culture
it has to be and that money goes into the hypersub contract i i have a video it's like a 20 minute video and i i walk through setting it all up and i'm like okay basically what happens is the money goes in the hypercontract and then from there the recipient's address is a splits contract and then from there the splits contract basically distributes funds to 6 addresses because i added 2 other cohosts which i'm actually gonna announce later today
oh good
yeah you should i'll just announce it right now i'll just announce it on i'll announce it on the channel on the podcast so it's good bitfloor ghost who's like a who is like him and i were always like neck and neck on the leaderboard when that was there and then i'm the dude oh yeah you also post funny memes so basically what i said to them is i was like hey look what i'd like to do is divide the channel revenue 31% 69% 69% goes back to top casters 31% goes to us and we're gonna just divide it evenly so we're gonna divide the 31 between the 3 of us we each get 10.33 and we're gonna divide the 69% tipping pool also between the 3 of us so we each get 23 24 whatever it is that all happens on chain it's all observable it all happens with a splits contract the situation that we're then all in is we have 2 wallets our personal wallets where we get the 10% and then we have our tipping wallets which is mean memetipsone.eth memetips2.eth memetips3.eth and so on and when you see a banger you install the paybot cast action you just click the cast action click paybot the frame comes up how much do you wanna tip and i'm suggesting that the tipping amount be 0042069 which is the same as an annual tipping pass eth
yeah eth which is great eth yeah i'm like i'm like do because you could imagine well let's make a meme
eth and it's tipping within the cast action
you got it
that's great yeah
paying for the year subscription
you got it with one banger 1 that's great if you post a second one you just made $16 if you post the third one you made $32 and so on and so forth and so for the top casters in a year they could you know make 100 and 100 of dollars so my joke about this is that it's a transfer of value from the non dank to the dank
for new for a new sentence
that's what that's what so so okay but just so so this is this is an experiment you know i i don't i don't even know maybe this is like maybe this won't work like maybe
masterpiece as far as i'm concerned
like i think it's really interesting and then you also mentioned rounds and rounds brings in another another approach to distribution of capital and whatever that capital is so you can have the same kind of thing that you're doing with paybot but you're doing it with rounds and putting it into essentially into like escrow and then yes the funds get distributed at the end but the the funds are based the distribution is based on the interaction with the different cast so the way rounds works in purple's doing this right now and it this is out of nouns and related to prop house so essentially you can set the rules of these are the folks who whose likes count and you can also moderate so that if something comes into that particular round that doesn't fit whatever your parameters are you can hide those and they don't get their likes don't count into the pool but then the percentage of what you win is based on your your likes by whoever those judges are so to speak it can be like for example with purple it can be only members of the dao and some of those so they're and they're gonna be expanding on rounds i know coming up so i'm working more on that
what's cool i think about how i'm approaching this with memes with the the other coasts that have added is that i am using my personal tipping allocation for to fund the rounds what nightfloor ghost and what i'm the dude does is up to them as far as i'm concerned that is their money that they can allocate to top casters however they want paybot
rounds you know some other tool for moving value like it's it's up to them and so what i like about this is that it gives us more surface area like to explore you know like because i might be like hey this rounds thing is actually like way better you know or they may say i found this other you know frame there
could be another tool next week
or a new tool for for sharing value and that's actually the way to do it you know like we can find out but i think like stepping back my grand vision is like you know and my thesis here is like can better channel economics result in like for example for memes can memes become can the memes channel on farcaster become the best place on the internet to find memes it's a question that i'm like trying to answer
it's it's interesting if you provide these incentives does it lead to yeah does it lead to
bad because i tell you i i i spend a lot of time in the meme minds i'm out there in the fields farming for memes and many of the top accounts put paypal and cash app and venmo links in their bio which is to me a signal that people wanna get paid they wanna make money they're doing work right they're providing value why shouldn't they but that feels like a hack and so yeah anyway that's kinda my
this is really talking i think you know go ahead sorry
people talked about you know around i think 2021 that most subreddits most daos are kinda like subreddits with shared bank accounts yeah you know what if what if reddit was actually naturally on chain and so yeah you know if if farcaster v zero was kind of twitter on chain then maybe the next one is gonna be reddit on chain or even the discord redux on chain hopefully a better version than that but i think there's just gonna be so many different with all the lego blocks that have have been built you have frames cast actions and now channels gonna come on chain and you have the whole ecosystem that's now mature there's a lot more we can do
it's like so it's really funny because everything you described johnny was essentially a dao but just in a different way which i
mean welcome to the irony panel again
here we go welcome back but it's really the essential the essence of a dao right is shared treasury that the those who are who play a role and contribute to the dao in whatever way are the ones who determine how those funds are spent there you go i just described channel with a hyper sub right yeah but i think it's it's all it is and and just to really bring this on really quick with auto mod in air stack i assume that you can limit who can post cast etcetera interact with based on any nft so that would include dao nfts as well yes
it's autobot ne71 1155 or any erc 20 yeah okay on most of the major networks
yeah same as here
and same with
you know pull ups and then erc 20 balances as well as like kind of one of those mechanisms
okay so you could even do if they own for example f w b is an erc 20 dao so they have a panel that is limited to those who own x number of that erc 20
exactly and i think it's like a it's like a ultimate skin in the game gate right like you think about some of these erc 20 communities that people are shilling but it's like you know do they have skin in the game and if they do then they can post you know if you have this higher balance or whatever it might be if you wanted to filter out the real holders from people that are maybe just kind of you know shilling
right or scammers who might be trying to yeah
yeah
send it to a different contract that's completely unrelated so lots of different safety precautions too that you could take adrienne i'm sorry i cut you off earlier what were you gonna say no
i just well i just wanna say johnny i just love the experimentation and just from i personally kind of always have this like anti financialization bias of like let's let's do that later like and you know like focus on the content curation and i actually think i may be changing my mind a little bit which in the you know in the web 2 world who you have such a kind of is it right skewed like only the top top creators really get paid yep and and most people don't and if you wanna get paid it's kinda like just build build build you have to grow grow the following and like money comes later typically so i think if we wanna try to make it a more equitable internet it probably does mean like don't wait to financialize maybe or don't wait to experiment
so i just i i just like the way hearing the way you talk about it because i wanna encourage maybe channel hosts like maybe don't i mean it doesn't mean you need to go and put paywalls in front of everything or kinda like but just right experiment and and it's like the earlier you do it probably the easier it will be to find out kind of how to do it than later
yeah i think that's right like we're the way i see this is that we're all it's almost like this like evolutionary process where we're like we're all like each channel is its own kind of mutation and we're seeing like okay which one like leads to fitness like which one has like the best community and like the best content and why you know what are the causal mechanisms of that outcome so that others can then replicate it and the network can grow got it
and then and then just going back to kind of our favorite line which is forecaster requires proof of work which i think a lot of people you know if you're kind of new you're waiting for the playbook it's like alright someone else go figure out how to make money and then give me the playbook which is fine you can wait for that but you'll be waiting versus the it's if yeah just i'm just wanna encourage people just to kinda move around
yeah yeah same
that's who knows like there is no playbook so just you have there are tooling and there won't be this like very elegant you have a video but people should try to play around and
yeah i think the other thing to to keep in mind and you know we're all we're all farcaster maxis on this podcast and and there are many on the network but you know the reality is that farcaster's success is far far from certain it's and so like the you know as sort of die hard you know network participants and members of this community we really have nothing to lose so my feeling is like do not be precious about it i don't give a fuck about how many followers i have or how many followers that the channel has because we're a tiny little speck in like an ocean of social networks and so like we should absolutely be like pushing the envelope and doing these experiments and like my feeling is like if it doesn't work it doesn't work and i'll be honest about that i'll say i'll write up a notion doc and say okay you know this is what how it went and this is this didn't work and here's what i learned and whatever and then hopefully someone else can use that for the kind of the next iteration and over time we hopefully figure out what does work and then that's what causes the network to grow but yeah i i agree i mean i think that like you know we we are on the frontier and so we should act like it and so we should we should not be safe and conservative we should be like pushing the boundaries of what's possible and so that's what to me is the most exciting thing about decentralized channels is that we now have all these other building blocks these other interoperable building blocks like because hypersub is on chain because you have all these erc 20 tokens on chain because you have things like automod which is like reading what's on chain it's like okay cool now we're not all gated on what the merkel team in particularly like what dan decides to ship we can like we have now agency and autonomy over what we can do with these things so to me that's like the most exciting thing here
i agree and i think that also the experimentation we see this all over web 3 so for me like the only way we figure out what works with dow's is to have thousands of dow's and then figure out what works and doesn't work it's the same kind of thing and until you have these things on l twos i think these this plays a huge role as well you couldn't do a lot of stuff so it's like every every little step gets us closer to figuring out what actually does work in terms of future you know businesses future whatever of everything online so i think that's yeah everything's an experiment so don't be afraid adrian what were you gonna say
oh sorry go ahead
no and i think that just i i think one of the challenges and johnny you're kind of you know and like you said we're all maxis this is like where we spend a lot of channel hosts are doing this it's like as they're completely off the side and it's not their day job they're not they may not be building on farcaster it's like oh here's a community i built a channel and then all of a sudden bandit gets ripped off and now i've got spam i don't know how to hide things people feel lost i mean this goes back to the nixlow cast that from the beginning which is like okay but what you know what the what do i do now because
what do i do yeah
so i don't know and and i don't know if i interrupted you johnny or prav you wanted to go somewhere else but maybe do we wanna go towards just kind of like talking to the channel like the the person who's hosting a channel what tools do they have how like from just from a moderation curation perspective
and yeah maybe we can go to each of you to just kinda talk about if you're brand new you're just looking at okay what do i do where do they start with each of these tools for whatever they're building and what what's gonna work best in their instance i think that's a great idea
my recommendation is to if you used workcast's features then my recommendation would be to install automod as a moderator and install the hide curate the hide and curate cast actions which is essentially gonna get you back to where you were but with just a different set of tools and i would just start there and that way you're like you're kind of like back at baseline and then from there you can start to experiment with adding more rules i mean like i i i feel bad i like dm john almost every day and i'm like why is this happening like how do these rules work together and so it's like does
he dm you back
yes yeah which also makes me feel bad but but like
what worked for ted is if you just put in your username don't dm me
yeah ted john's john's gonna have to do that soon but like i'm happy
this john's gonna change his profile
hey john how does the hide work does it just over because i understood it was like there's no such thing as hiding anymore in so the only thing you can do is like so does the hide just override any likes
it removes the like
okay
yeah so and if
you have multiple cohosts like let's say we're all co moderating and 3 of you like something and i don't hide it channel yeah does does that
hide it if you have like 10 cohosts if if a cohost says you know curate it's just auto mod that likes it so if any other cohost says hide it it's just auto mod that unlikes it and that's the only thing that matters from the perspective people of clients of war cast
so so you can go and and and you can check you could check cohost alignment by looking at at the auto mod logs yeah and you'd be like okay you know professor liked it adrian did it professor recurated and then
that's just like an that's it it's a dao disaster like i can already i know one channel that i we will not be trying to trying to coordinate that that's gonna be fun
someone cast it recently like why is automod liking all my casts
we're your biggest fan
yeah so i think an important point here is that liking just to like put a put a you know bullet on this liking is the way in which it curates and moves it to the main feed and the pure in the for those who may not fully understand that so if the moderator or owner likes it then it moves it to
the main set or just
the moderator okay so if you turn moderator on that's what's moving it to the main feed so that's the important part here if it's not liked then it doesn't have that curation and it won't be it'll but it'll still be in recent correct yes yeah everything's just but maybe hidden
i've heard someone referred to the recent tab as the spam tab of death yeah another way to think about it
is just depending on the channel it might be yeah
it's just a fire hose
i really like the idea of recent because there you know one of the things that come up a lot before was like hey my cast aren't showing up like i i cast in this channel did auto mod hide it did a mod hide it whatever so i'd like to see i think recent is too much spam right now but i think maybe a a couple more iterations if that could be a place where everyone's cast could be seen i think that's a positive thing to have so i'd like
to i i also think that it very clearly demonstrates the value of curation because if you think i think there's a lot of there's this like stated versus revealed preference thing where people are like like i wanna see everything you know i'm against censorship show me everything it's like oh really okay great here you go here it is you know
i'm pro censorship hi i just
saw this it's like you know what i'm pro i'm pro curation like and if the owner of this channel wants to like apply some rules and you know on top of those rules do some heuristic curation like yes give me that and so my my feeling on that is that the channels that get curation right will be the winning channels because they're gonna have the best stuff they're gonna have the best the the best content they're gonna be the best little cozy corners to hang out in
yeah and i think there's a go ahead adrian
no go ahead john
i think there's opportunities as well on the moderation side so we're talking a little like token gating is kind of you know a heuristic for you know it it can be help boost a channel economy but it's also heuristic for getting the right people into curation channel in an automatic way but mhmm there's lots of other ones i think if you if you the way i think about each channel is it's kind of its own little culture you know if you take a phil's commitment channel very simple one you you have to start with like i commit and and you're declaring commitments publicly and there's other ones like ham that are tipping like crazy and basically you can imagine each of these having their own little fine tune models that you could use to actually take a lot of the burden away from manually curating this stuff and you can start to create culture and channels and for me like one really big kpi i think for war cast is or for farcaster and for me personally is like how many new relationships could be made inside of a channel and i think if you can start to have culture where there's not a lot of spam or these things are more on topic and people connect that's a real that's a really good sign so it's it's something i'm i'm thinking a lot about
yeah and that also back to that network yeah the network perspective rather than media mhmm sorry go ahead alex
no i was just gonna say
to add on to that i think like a lot of channels are testing things out right now across you know both our tools and figuring out what works and i think like being able to have that like boilerplate you know basic filter that built pushes you know people that are real people into your main and then finding like what are those little logic points that engage your community across different things whether they're doing our events or maybe they're using like receipts and it's a fitness channel like how do you like engage and motivate people to like wanna push content that you know would be valuable and be curated into the main feed
awesome yeah
i think i really like what john said i mean i i think about i i often think about what caused farcaster to get to where it is and so i think a lot about like the first 6 months that that i was there and it was so cozy it was so aligned you know and my joke about this is like in the rhythm we trust which is like yeah dan was cherry picking from twitter who he thought would be the you know like good people who would like show up and contribute to the culture that was emerging and like to me that has to like rep like you have to make that fractal like you have to like replicate that you know a 1000000 times in order for for for for the network to really like grow and i think channels are absolutely like how you do that like channels are this porous boundary that you can be like okay you know this is what we're about here and so i like and and so people can come in and they can leave but there's there is like there is a defining culture it's like this channel's culture is like different from another channel's culture and like and so the new user would show up and be like okay who who do i vibe with like who what makes sense to me like do i wanna be part of like commitment culture you know or do i wanna go full or do i want a little bit of both like it's i think like channels have to mature to a point where the culture is obvious like right away for new users joining and they can be like they can kind of peek in they can like kinda pop their head in the door and be like oh this is cool like i really like this i wanna be a part of this and then they can and there's like a really smooth onboarding on like a per channel basis like i think that but in order for that to be true we have to do what we're doing right now which is we have to be on this frontier of iterating and experimenting and i think what's you know this is just true with any learning process is that it's painful you know you go through periods where you're like what i'm so confused this is this is makes sense like this feels kinda broken like but that's like you have to get through that to get to the thing on the other side you know
yeah i totally agree and i think that i know for me i haven't done this yet and i think this was more of a like well i know they you guys are coming so i'll just wait a minute i haven't done any of my channels yet moderated them and i'm need i'm gonna try all the different options because i have very different channels so i wanna go play around and actually learn you know what what are the big differences between air stack and auto mod and if i turn this rule on and if i turn this rule off and play around with that because we've got you know i've got dao channels that i i have and then i have you know gm forecaster which is more you know just sharing what we're doing here in that community and that has a hyper sub so how do i elevate those folks within that channel that's gonna be an interesting sort of let's test out all the things and see see if we can you know learn anything from from doing things differently and i would suggest like if you have multiple channels do the same to see if we can have some learning around what works well and what doesn't it's so that we and we can share those with with each other so what else adrianne before we wrap we're i'm gonna wanna be conscious of time here so what what did we miss
that we
didn't get to
for john and alex and and i think i know the answer but so air stack is an option automod is an option are they by nest is like necessarily mutually exclusive the way things are set up today in terms of tooling it's kind of for a channel it's 1 or the other because they're acting as the curation
yeah
or moderator okay yeah
because you can only have 1
moderator for the
channel so that the the the moderator becomes the tool yes
yeah exactly like the simple ans the the simple answer is yes but there is a future where channels can bring their own moderator and they could integrate they could basically bring their own bot to services like automod or airstack and compose those now in in in the case of automod and airstack the functionality is overlapping so it doesn't make sense but there might be other things that you could you could compose with other tools in the future so there's a path for that which is kinda cool
is there it would be cool even as like potentially in that future where we build you know maybe different different tool sets to take like you know maybe like social capital rank from air stack and there's an auto mod feature that you like as well like that would be a really cool kind of composable future where you know maybe you want a deeper level of curation
is there an kind of an archetype of or archetype of a channel or someone you're specifically targeting alex or john in terms of like who you're trying to reach or is
it yeah i mean i think we're airstack we've just you know in the last couple of months we've really gone all in on firecastr we really really believe in building tools for builders here and channel moderators fall under that category so for us it's like basically anyone with a channel you know we want to help you through a suite of you know cast actions through no code tools no code frames and then through like moderation tooling as well so yeah kind of any and all as we continue to kind of ship more for our castor tooling
yeah and the same like we're we're pretty early in discovering use cases i think that you know the bigger channels have a lot to gain because they just have way more volume so they can they need auto they need automation their their moderation task is just way too big but then there's smaller channels that i think are really cool like i mean i i love the example from phil with commitment like that everyone every post in there is commitment lesson in there is the same every every post and lesson in there is a lesson
oh and it there's a whole
bunch of other ones
i do have one more question and do you both have ice do you both have free option like free tiers are you paying people paying right away how does that work and john i loved when someone pointed out i think was it you that all of a sudden you have to pay for store like when automodbot is is doing all the likes you're gonna be having to up your storage costs which did not think about that
that was that's why i was up 24 hour like 24 hours the day before i was provisioning 40 accounts on my phone for automod to actually provision stored
and that's why there's multiple bots when it was like because i added this and it was like different bots because of too many likes fascinating
yeah exactly or or you can just get like one massive account and and do it that way as well but more of a technical conversation but yeah there's about 40 different automot accounts now
cool oh
wow yeah
alright interesting
yeah and airstock at current it's just we're completely free we're still kind of in discovery mode talking to a lot of folks and iterating on the product so yeah for the time being you know no cost
yeah automotive is a free tier
used to be early
right now up to a 1,000 casts and then it's $7 for the next tier and then it goes by 24 from above from that so
on hyper sub relating
to the storage to the storage aspects what was that johnny sorry
you actually can pay for auto mod with hypersub
yeah those which
is kinda funny it's gets like recruiting
there's there's a revenue there's a revenue share also there's a 5% revenue share with hypersub and invite links so it's all powered oh by that
so
right monetize your channel through hypersub use hypersub to pay for automotive titles
i am that i am that meme right now
yeah it's the spider man meme where we're all wow
that one oh my god it's so many this has been amazing though thank you for this conversation is there anything else that you wanna shout out and we're gonna have links to everything in the show notes so we'll have links to automod and air stack and the air stack notion and the hyper sub to make sure you can find all these different options as well as more information about the decentralized channels that dan has put out there as well anything else that you wanna sort of leave with that we either missed or something you wanna highlight that before we wrap
maybe just quickly if you're testing our tool out jump in our dev chat tell us what you want what you like don't like like we're you know fully driven on building a really great moderation tool here and just want people's you know feedback so we can make sure we're aiming in the right direction
great and i
would just add yeah you know if you have feedback suggestions comments would love to hear it you know as as i mentioned multiple times like it's a big experiment and so the most valuable thing is information so if there's ideas or points of friction or whatever you know like i'm very hungry for that because i wanna i i want this to work so yeah it's what i'd i'd love any awesome any input there
and you had a group chat too for those who might be interested in seeing how all these things work together
that's right
so we'll have that link to that cast as well if you're interested in jumping in or just reach out to johnny for that and john lastly anything that you wanna shout out
oh man thanks to forecast core team for not shutting me off like 3 months ago when i reverse engineered the apis and released this and actually for taking a big pretty big bet on moderation i mean we have a a moderator in forecast now like the that's gonna be in potentially in the protocol so it's a pretty big bet on the ecosystem that's something that they could have just owned or or not exposed so it's pretty cool and and last just that's
a great using auto
and i think now they're just pointing to you now they're just pointing to you of like oh we don't have to build that now these folks already did so they're just keep like pointing to those who've built the thing and that makes their job just a little bit easier so that's pretty cool
i think everyone will win from it because we'll we'll just get a nice ecosystem of tools and channel owners can do what they need so
amazing adrienne anything else that you wanna wrap with before we call it
a a reminder that this is tuesday last thursday this we ripped a band aid and changes came out less than a week this content will be out of date in about 24 to 48 hours because absolutely so hopefully this is helpful
but
actually you know what i just checked it's out of date already yeah so
we'll record something tomorrow again yeah
yeah just expect expect evolution and also if anyone i wanna ask if anyone can guess what my background is so if you know
i don't even know what is your background
anyone with that okay it's the it's from i speak nerds essay on channel curation that he just put out so shout out thank you for doing that
and we'll have that
in the show notes as well
that was a that was a really helpful one so we'll have all these different links in the show notes i didn't recognize it from the essay but now i see it very cool and you know speaking of i think nerd and tabletop i think that is primed for an interesting economic benefit channel so we'll see we'll see what they do there but i definitely see things coming from channels like that so alright and with that thank you all for joining us today this was super helpful i think it clarified a few things for me i need to go do some work make money add some moderating
no no no but i have to go i have to go add some add some tools to my various channels and with that we will be back on friday we'll be off the next couple of days i will be probably streaming a little bit or posting some content from consensus and lot of fun things happening there and but otherwise we will see you friday with a little recap of all the things back at 8:30 am est we'll see you then and with that bye bye
thank you